I hope most of you are having a better weekend—weather-wise—than we are in the Northeast corner of the US. This is the second Nor’easter to hit in as many days. At least it gives me a chance to catch up on e-mails, etc, and to get a new blog up before I leave for a quick research trip to France. (I know, as the old joke goes, a dirty job but someone has to do it.) I am so grateful to Richard’s sister Joanna for marrying the Count of Toulouse, for until now, I’d never gotten any farther south than Bordeaux. She was also very helpful in wedding the King of Sicily, another place I’ve always longed to see. Sadly I am not going to be able to make it to Palermo and Messina—not if I have a prayer in hell of meeting the Lionheart deadline—but I can console myself with the knowledge that I’ll get a second grab at the Sicilian brass ring with my novel about Constance de Hauteville. And the research about Sicily’s “Golden Age” was truly fascinating. I’ve also enjoyed delving into the history of medieval Cyprus, one reason why Richard’s quick conquest expanded to four full chapters, much to his disgust. But the culture clash between the Greeks and the “Latins” was interesting; Latins was the term used at the time for those who adhered to the Pope in Rome rather than the Patriarch in Constantinople And no writer could have resisted the first-person accounts of the chroniclers who’d accompanied Richard on what he called his “pilgrimage.” (The word “crusade” was not used in the MA)
Here’s one explaining, simply and succinctly, why they were able to defeat the Cypriot emperor’s forces so easily even though they were outnumbered: “We knew more of war than they did.” Or here is Richard being told that Acre was about to be captured, “’God forbid that Acre should be won in my absence,’ he said, ‘for it has been besieged for so long, and the triumph—God willing—will be so glorious.’” Here is another eye-witness chronicler describing Richard’s wedding, “She (Berengaria) was beautiful, with a bright countenance, the wisest woman, indeed, that one could hope to find anywhere. There was the king in great glory, rejoicing in his victory and his marriage to the woman to whom he’d pledged his troth.” {Richard of Devizes, the chronicler who famously if unkindly described Berengaria as “more prudent than pretty” never laid eyes upon her.} Here a chronicler tells us of a fiery confrontation at Famagusta between Richard and envoys sent by the French king, who was already at Acre: “They insulted him so much that the king became angry, raising his eyebrows. Such things were said as should not be written down.”
Of course these were hardly unbiased observers, men convinced that Richard was destined to be the savior of Christendom, so the French king does not come off too well. I actually felt some sympathy for Philippe at this point. He had never wanted to take the cross, had been shamed into it by the Archbishop of Tyre and public opinion. For Philippe—like Henry—was a realist, without any of Richard’s illusions of the glory of battle and no love of adventure or travel; the poor guy did not even like horses. Then, not only did he get pressured into going on crusade, he had to do it with Thor, the God of War. There is no doubt that Philippe was a very intelligent man and he would prove to be a capable, ruthless king, as unlike his father Louis as chalk and cheese. Yet when it came to the forum of public opinion, he could not begin to compete with a “media-savvy” war hero, one as skilled at promoting his own legend as he was at wreaking havoc on the battlefield. Philippe would eventually win their war because of Richard’s untimely but unsurprising death (the only surprise is that Richard lived as long as he did given the way he liked to dice with death), but he would discover that the legend lived on, for myths are harder to kill than mortal men.
I think I’ve responded to all of your queries in the last blog; if not, feel free to remind me what I missed. I’d like to thank Ken again for all the research work he has done and for being generous enough to share it with us. My very negative reaction to the suggestion that Constance of Brittany could possibly have been the mother of John’s daughter Joanna was in no way directed at Ken; I definitely do not believe in shooting the messenger! Basically, it seems that someone with too much free time on his hands began to wonder if the chroniclers could have mistaken “Clemence” for “Constance” and with that, he was off to the races. He does not appear to have even considered how extraordinary it would have been for Constance to bed the man who was her son’s main rival for the English Crown. From the moment that Arthur was born, it was obvious to all that if Richard died without an “heir of his body” (a distinct possibility in light of his reckless battlefield exploits; apparently few expected him to return alive from the crusade.) the only heirs would be his nephew Arthur or his brother John. The laws of primogeniture were still in a state of flux in the twelfth century, and men were not sure if the son of an older brother (Geoffrey) had a better claim than the youngest brother, John. Yet we are supposed to believe that this prideful, ambitious woman, who utterly loathed all of the Angevins except Geoffrey, would indulge in some high-risk sinning with John, of all men? I’d have to see actual photographic evidence of them in bed together to believe that one! I will give the final word on this subject to Kathryn Gibson, whom I am sure is familiar to many of you as the woman who almost single-handedly won official recognition for Aber as the site of the palace of the Welsh princes. Kathryn agreed to let me post her response, so here it is.
* * * *
‘Here Be Dragons’
>”Joan, daughter of King John who married Llywelyn ab Iorwerth in 1205, was most probably born 1191. The statement by the Pope that John ‘when unmarried fathered…’ is clear, but what it meant at the time when it was written is that in the eyes of the church his first marriage, annulled on the grounds of consanguinity, was deemed not to be a ‘marriage’. In other words because John had needed a divorce and didn’t have proper grounds, this gave him a reason that was valid.
> The statement that her mother was ‘an unmarried woman’ at the time allows us to exclude some of the likely named contenders.”
* * * *
I have a few items to pass on now. One of my readers was kind enough to send a link to my Facebook page about the discovery of a twelfth century crusader mural in Syria. I tried to copy and paste the link, but for some reason it wouldn’t go through despite several attempts. So if you’re interested, just google twelfth century crusader murals in Syria and the stories will come up. There is a Yahoo discussion group for people interested in talking about my books. Jayne Smith, its founder, asked me to post the link here. Sharonpenmanhistory~subscribe@yahoogroups.com And another reader sent me a link to the BBC History Magazine website; it is not strictly medieval, of course, but definitely interesting: http://www.bbchistorymagazine.com/
This will be my last blog until mid-November, but I hope to return with some interesting stories about my pursuit of Angevin ghosts. I’ll leave you now with this to ponder. Remember we talked earlier about the best-selling {!) book, Pride and Prejudice and Zombies and whether it signaled the decline of civilization as we know it? Well, we have something else to look forward to—an upcoming film, Templars vs Zombies.
October 18, 2009
Hi, Sharon,
Thank you for your kind words and for sparing me from the firing squad!!
Have a great time in France. As you know, I spend a great deal of time there and absolutely love it (particularly the food and wine!).
You probably have your itinerary already arranged, but, if you can, fit in a visit to Carcassonne. Apart from being a spectacular example of a medieval ‘Cite’ (forget the curio shops), just entering through the main gate is like stepping back in time! Absolutely mind-blowing for a medievalist!
Come back refreshed and tell us all about it!
Hi EC,
I thought I’d reply to your post about the death of Margaret Wade Labarge under ‘Random Thoughts’ here, as you were more likely to see it.
She really was a remarkable lady and a superb medieval scholar, I too, have her ‘A Baronial Household’ published in 1965, giving an account of those times taken from the household accounts of Eleanor de Montfort in 1265, the very year in which her husband met his death at Evesham.
I also have her ‘Women in Medieval Life, published in 1986 and her latest (I think), ‘A Medieval Miscellany,’ published in 1997, which includes an article about my protagonist, Sir Othon de Grandson.
We, established and (like me) budding authors, owe so much to wonderful people like her!
Hi, Ken. I didn’t know about A Medieval Miscellany, thanks. I will definitely look for it, as I share your admiration for Margaret Wade LaBarge, and I’d love to read an article about your Othon. Sometime you’ll have to tell us how you became interested in his story. And yes, I will be in Carcassonne for three days. I’d made a vow to myself ages ago that I’d get to see Mont St Michel, Fontevrault, and Carcassonne before I died. So this will complete my trifecta. Only now I want to keep coming back!
Hi Sharon, thanks for leaving us something to ponder about before leaving on your trip (Templars vs. Zombies–oh my!!) I will look forward to hearing “interesting stories about (your) pursuit of Angevin ghosts” (wink).
Wishing you a wonderful time…!
‘The word “crusade” was not used in the MA’ – Interesting. When was it coined?
What you wrote about Richard and Philip was interesting, Sharon. I am certain it would gall him to learn that years later, everybody knows ‘the great noble Richard the Lionheart’, while he is remebered at most as the incompetent evil villian. But i actually think Josephine Tey summarized it quite nicely in Daughter of Time, regarding Richard III vs. Henry VII (VIII): ‘I think Richard won, at the end. He was loved in his own time.’ The same, I believe, should be true for success and accomplishment (although it’s also different, because success for the duration of your lifetime which soon collapses, such as Llewellyn’s, is more controversial in it’s worth). John will always be a more productive king in my eyes than Richard.
Sharon,
I am so excited (and a bit jealous) for your trip to France. I cannot wait to hear all about it when you return. I want to thank you for another interesting blog post-I find myself learning more and more with each post. Thank you too for posting my question regarding books on Henry IV, V, and VI. I am reading several right now including Bernard Cornwell’s Agincourt, Alison Weir’s War of the Roses, and Edith Pargeter’s A Bloody Field by Shewsbury. My head sometimes feels like it is going to explode!
I have to point out that I read your blog and posted this reply while watching the Eagles stink up the field against the Raiders. I hope they pull this game off!
Oh, and some happenings: Today (Monday) John I, King of England died.
Koby, didn’t he died on Oct 18, 1216?
Here is some detail of the last happenings and last hours of King John– ‘John Lackland’.
I’m taking the liberty to quote it from Elizabeth’s Chadwick–Livingthe HistoryBlog from May 9, 2009 (hope you dont mind EC):
“For the entry into Newark, he forced himself back onto a horse, an ‘ambling nag’ (Kate Norgate, John Lackland) Here, at the castle, he lingered, dying, for three days, attended by the abbot of Croxton, who, despite his medical skills was unable to do anything. As John died at midnight on October 18th, apparently a whirlwind swept through the town with such violence that peope feared for their houses, and with the storm departed the soul of King John.”
Well, first of all, I’m seven hours ahead of the East Coast, so it sometimes gets confusing over when it is exactly. But I will point out that if it was midnight, that would already be the 19th, as technically, the 18th ended at 11:59.
Oh, Sharon! I love to hear you speak well of Philippe! I know this is a rare occurance, so I will savor it. I hope you have a wonderful time in Toulouse. I was so glad to see Joanna get her hands on that city…Eleanor always thought it should have belonged to her. But then, shouldn’t all the world?
Today in Royal history:
October 20, 1714 – Coronation of George I
George divorced his wife Sophia Dorothea of Celle in 1694 and held her in the Castle of Ahlden in Celle until her death 32 years later; she was never to see her two young children again.
This made me think of Henry & Eleanor. How sad it was that Sophia Dorothea of Celle did not have the same good fortune of Eleanor of Aquitaine. To think that imprisonment was a primary resource to get rid-off an ‘unwanted wife’ blows my mind away. But it is a relief to know that Eleanor withstood those many years of solitude and came back with the same strength and sharp mind and spirit to fight for our Lionheart’s throne.
Have a great trip, Sharon! And in the meantime, stay warm! (Or dry, or whatever is appropriate. I guess I don’t really know what a Nor’easter IS, except that it *sounds* dreadful.)
I don’t know why, but the idea of Templars vs. Zombies doesn’t horrify me nearly as much as revising Austen’s work to include said zombies. I get a picture more along the lines of a scene from Shaun of the Dead that just makes me laugh, instead of making me want to weep in despair.
Actually, Kristen, I got the title wrong. It is Templars vs Vampires, which I am sure we can all agree makes so much more sense!
PS I thought Shaun of the Dead was a hoot. What truly horrified me about adding zombies to Jane Austin was that this rocketed the book to the best-seller list. Now I can’t really see Lionheart as a zombie, but as a vampire….bears thinking about.
Actually, I think this has been suggested already, but seriously, Richard seems more of a werewolf… or maybe a were-lion? John and Philippe, now they would be vampires – sucking the blood out of Richard’s kingdom…
Hi Sharon,
It will be great to hear about your travels through France. I am planning a trip there in the next couple of years so it will be great to get some ideas on the best places to visit.
This may have been mentioned before but as well as ‘Pride and Prejudice and Zombies’ there is now ‘Sense and Sensibilty and Sea Monsters’ available in book stores.
And today, George, Duke of Clarence was born, and Alix duchess of Brittany, half sister to arthur and eleanor, and daughter of Constance died.
Hi, all. I have an early Christmas gift for you, an account of time-traveling at the Angevin court. This was posted on the Historical Fiction On-line forum by a wickedly talented writer who goes under the alias Miss Moppet, or “Lady Moppet of Yorkshire” once she infiltrates Henry’s court. She kindly agreed to let me post the link here and on my Facebook wall. So if you’d like to read about Eleanor musing that youngest sons ought to be drowned at birth like kittens, kinder, really, since they have no lands, or our intrepid heroine’s encounter with “Richard Date Rape Lionheart” who offers to show her his swords, enjoy. http://www.historicalfictiononline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2538
Odd, it doesn’t look as if you can click onto the link, does it? Well, the curious can always go to my Facebook page, where the link does work.
Marbella, I, too, am inspired by Eleanor’s imprisonment, and her return to power after Henry’s death. Nothing stopped Eleanor, not even 15 years in the clink. What a woman! No wonder Henry loved her for so long…until he didn’t…Or maybe he loved her, but imprisoned her anyway? That’s what I like to believe. I guess we’ll never know.
And Sharon, thank you so much for the link to the hysterical “Lady Moppet of Yorkshire!” I hope she gives us more adventures in the future.
Hi, Sharon,
Hope you are still there and not off on your exciting trip to the South of France.
While trawling through JSTOR on a quest for a particular item on Edward 1, I came across, “The unromantic death of Richard 1.”
Although It’s not my period, it attracted my interest and so I had a look. It discusses the possible reasons of Richard’s presence at Chalus at that fateful time – ‘an obscure and distant place.’ Possibly the rebellion in the Limousin and, possibly, the discovery, by a peasant, of treasure trove in the area, that Richard wanted to get hold of!
It struck me that, in your research, you may not have seen this particular paper and so I thought I’d draw your attention to it for your story on Richard. The reference is:
‘The Unromantic Death of Richard 1, by John Gillingham.
Source: Speculum – Vol 54, No. 1 (Jan 1979), pp, 18-41
Published by: Medieval Academy of America
Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/2852987
If you haven’t already seen it, I hope it helps with your story!
Dear Ms. Penman,
I just stumbled across your blog, and am very happy to have done so! You are one of my favorite authors, and look forward to reading this blog until you have another book published. I refer every person I meet who has an interest in Wales to your books.
A sincere fan,
Narda Wakoluk
Sharon,
I am reading Sunne for the second time in 6 months and noticed that you had Lionel as Edward III’s third son. Isn’t he the second son? Also, can I just say that I love everything about Sunne?! It’s like finding a friend all over again since this was the first book of yours I read. I am supposed to receive Sandra Worth’s Lady of the Roses today. Have you read anything of hers? I will also be reading Anne Easter Smith’s book on Richards “other woman.” Many, many books to read at one time, but loving every minute! Safe travels!!
Ken,
The movie _Robin and Marion_ starring Sean Connery and Audrey Hepburn depicts the same “trying to get hold of a treasure” scenario you mentioned. It is an old movie (1976) so apparently the treasure idea is not new. I had never heard about it though.
Robin has been on crusade with Richard and they have returned to France (but not to England, and I don’t think they mentioned the prisoner thing either) Richard is portrayed as greedy and ruthless, and ends up with an arrow in the neck.
Of course this movie was made for entertainment value, but how odd to see the treasure idea depicted.
Is anyone else familiar with this movie?
I read Lady of the Roses, and actually didn’t enjoy it so much. It’s hard to explain why, but I felt it concentrated too much on Isabella, leaving everything else to fade in the background. To me, it wasn’t a Historical Novel – becuase the history was barely any part of the story.
Anyway, what we’ve missed in dates (I was in the Mountains of Eilat for five days):
October 25th: Stephen of England died, and the Battle of Agincourt.
October 27th: Raymond VI of Toulouse, who married Joanna Plantagenet was born.
Today (October 30th): Henry VI (or VII) returns to the throne of England after Edward IV flees England, and Henry VII (or VIII) is crowned.
And now a question. What are your thoughts regarding what John Marshal did in Newbury, where he gambled with his son’s life? Do you think he took a calculated risk, having known Stephen wouldn’t hang William, and so it’s not really bad? Do you think he really didn’t care? And what do you think Sybilla (his wife) had to say about this?
Koby,
I’m about halfway through the Lady of the Roses and I have to agree with you. It isn’t so much that I don’t like it, but I am a bit disappointed in the lack of history. I was hoping to learn more about the Neville family and hear another perspective on the York/Lancaster dynamic. If I let go the need for history, it isn’t so bad.
Hi Koby, good question. I think the gamble was real, JM had no way of knowing that Stephen would eventually not hang his son. I believe people back then did not love their kin as much as we do; and love is the wrong word; I think they cared about them, but if they died, then that was God’s will, or their lot in life, or whatever it may be. I believe JM really did think that if his son died, he’d have time enough to make more. Mortality was such a huge part of life, I think life was not as valued as it is nowadays. His wife, of course, had no say in it, she was just a blasted female, a breeding mare (I thank the heavens every day that I don’t live back ten!)
Ellie, I did see that Robin Hood movie a long time ago, but cannot remember much detail! I do remember that when old and feeble and on his death bed, Robin asked Little John to fetch his bow so that he could shoot an arrow from his bed, through the window opening and said, ‘Where this arrow falls, there you must bury me!’
This gave rise to the old joke that Robin was so feeble that he could hardly draw back the bow and so was then buried on top of the wardrobe where his arrow landed!!!!!!!!!!
Ken…That is so funny!! There were lots of comedic moments in the film, as well as a stab at portraying the MA. I think _Whatever Happened to Robin Hood_ as a title could have worked too! I assumed the treasure scenario, and what led up to it was a part of the spoof, and I was surprised to read about it in your blog.
I have the movie on DVD…not so much for Robin Hood, but for Sean Connery. If you would like a copy, I would be happy to ask someone here to make one for you. I’m still a computer second grader, born in the first half of the last century, but a copy would be no problem. It’s the least I could do considering all the info I have gleaned from your research. ( You could pass it on to someone else who is interested…kind of like an SKP tag team.)
I have a previous documented direct line of descent from King John, and I will try to tie in another through Joanna just for the fun of it.
….oops. I forgot the question mark after _Whatever Happened to Robin Hood? _ With so many erudite people reading Sharon’s blog, I should at least try for correct punctuation.
…and while I’m here, let me add that I’m happy to see this blog moving along as usual, (though we all miss you Sharon!) I can only speak for myself, but this seems to be a “family blog”. The things I read here seem to come from your hearts…. shared passion for a time, for places and for people who are long gone. Many of your names are familiar to me; I have met some of you, and seen pictures of others. We even pass each other frequently in other blogs. Birds of a feather, I guess, but we’re fortunate to have this. Years ago, being a medievalist was a singular pastime to say the least. Thanks to all of you. 3:)
Ellie, If you would like some more fun, particularly about bad (good?) King John, go along to the ‘historicalfictiononline’ blog and check out Miss (Lady) Moppet’s time travel adventures in King John’s court – simply hilarious!
If you have not already tried out HF on line, I would really recommend it to you and to anyone interested in HF. If you like it, introduce yourself in the ‘Itroduce Yourself’ thread and you’ll get a very warm welcome!
Britta, I have an entire post on John Marshal over at my Living the History Blog http://livingthehistoryelizabethchadwick.blogspot.com/2009/10/biography-of-john-marshal.html If you read my replies to comments, you’ll see more on my thoughts on the matter too.
I think the whole anvils and hammers things has been misunderstood by our century and the wrong slant often put upon it. Yes, I do think John Marshal could have begotten other sons – and did so. I don’t think his second wife was necessarily a ‘breeding mare’ even if their match was arranged for political purpose. That would be part of her role in their society,(and she would have taken it seriously) but not the be all and end all. By the same tenets, a man was expected to beget heirs.
Do read the blog post if you are interested.
I wonder how Sharon is going on in France. Hope it’s proving a fruitful and enjoyable business.
Quite an interesting and informative post, Elizabeth. I have read A Place Beyond Courage, and I suppose that the question is a deeper one: Was John really a robber Baron, a villian no better than Geoffrey de Mandeville? Or was he simply a man who played both sides, trying to survive with as much of his power as he could? I tend to lean towards the second option, personally. And to me, it makes more sense that John knew that Stephen could never hang a child, and was willing to gamble on that. I think that if the king was Henry I, John would have never done what he did.
In other matters, today Robert Fitz Roy, Earl of Gloucester died, and so did Eleanor (Leonora) of england, daughter of Henry and Eleanor.
Ken, thank you for the reference to the 1979 Speculum article. I rummaged around the attic and pulled out my 30-year-old copy. Gillingham debunks the treasure trove version of Richard’s death, which was generally accepted at that time, including by Gillingham himself in 1973 (see note 4). He argues that Richard was engaged in a serious campaign against rebels (i.e., allies of the French king) in the Limousin and Angoumois. It was not so much greed, but his own ferocity, that lead to Richard’s end. The fatal bolt was shot from a castle whose surrender the king refused to accept. In this regard, witness Richard’s treatment of Geoffrey’s Breton knights in 1184. Not having kept up with recent literature, I am not sure if Gillingham’s position has been accepted by other historians, though he certainly follows it in his book, The Angevin Empire (2nd edition, 2001). As are most movies set in the Middle Ages, “Robin and Marian” is ahistorical in detail, but in 1976 it was roughly following the received version of Richard’s death.
Ken… Sharon is my Facebook friend and she posted the link to the ‘Lady Moppet’ adventure before she left. I agree…it is hysterical. My FB friend Susan invited me to join HF online a while back. I did so, but did not introduce myself. I will pop over there afterwhile and do so. My user name is ellieaenor. Thanks! 3:)
And today, Philippe II Auguste of France was crowned. Probably another one of Louis’ mistakes…
Malcom,
I wonder what other treasures you have up in that Attic??
I am absolutely no expert on the 12th century and my knowledge of Richard is limited to having seen him appear in the final scenes of every Robin Hood film I’ve seen, to thank Robin for defending him and to marry him To Maid Marion!!
However, I decided to have a look at Gillingham’s paper and while, of course, you are right in that he ‘debunks’ the ‘Treasure Trove’ theory for the presence of Richard at Chalus-Chabrol, he doesn’t dismiss it totally. Quote:
“On the other hand it is possible that there was both a rebellion and a treasure. Richard may have marched into the Limousin to deal with the rebellion and then been drawn to Chalus-Chabrol itself by a report that treasure had been found. But it is clear that, in this case, the treasure was of subsidiary importance.”
Other historians, including Powicke, have described the ‘treasure’ as being of Roman origin, but – if it did exist, what happened to it after the castle at Chalus fell to the besiegers?? Another story awaiting a novelist here?
And Today, Matilda of Flanders, wife of William the Conqueror died, Henry Stafford of Buckingham was executed, and Anne of York, daughter of Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville was born.
Ken,
I have subscribed to Speculum since my graduate-student days in the 1970s. My medieval history books are all downstairs, but I move each year’s four issues of Speculum upstairs after the year turns.
Where do you live in Cornwall?
Hi, Malcom,
In Truro. I left Truro with my wife and two children in my 20’s to go to Kenya as a structural engineer and there I discovered ‘life!’ This was when Jomo Kenyatta was still President!
Then spent the rest of my working life up to 2000 overseas, before coming back to God’s own county! I now split my time between Truro and Port Grimaud in the south of France, where we (my second wife and I) have a home.
Discovered (re-discovered?) my passion for the medieval life after I retired and am trying (sometimes very hard, but not always) to write a novel based on the right hand man of Edward 1, Othon de Grandson.
I, like many others however, have discovered that the research is, of itself, addictive and I have lately been neglecting Othon’s story. I have to get back to France and hide myself away from the realities of life in Truro (shopping, cooking, cleaning – yes, I am a house husband!) and WRITE!
Where are you?
Hello again, Ken. We live in Tallahassee, Florida, though I am a New England native and still have family property on Cape Cod. With wife and eldest son, I visited Cornwall in June 2004 for three days, staying at a B & B in Penzance. One evening, we ate in Mousehole, and we spent a good deal of time exploring the far west coast. We have friends (both artists and both from Yorkshire) who bought a farmstead between Penzance and St. Ives after leaving Tallahassee, where Trevor had been a professor for many years. I have been in England four times this decade, while my wife was teaching in the Florida State University London Program. Forays this past June were into the Yorkshire Dales, visiting Middleham Castle, and to Edinburgh, along with two of our sons. Way back in 1973-74, Allys and I spent the better part of a year living in Brittany, while I did research on the 11th and 12th centuries. During that period, we managed visits to London and various parts of France, including Provence at the end of ’73.
There you have a lightning synopsis. This morning, I mailed a copy of the 1979 Gillingham article to Sharon, in case she does not have it. With her out of country and out of touch, there is no way to be sure. Thanks again for the helpful reference.
Today, Edward V, one of the Princes in the Tower was born.
Okay, so I’ve got two questions for all of you, though one can only be truly answered by SHaron, for which I’ll have to wait… Anyway, first question: Does anyone know where I can find a factual account of Petronilla and Raoul’s life together? Because I’ve found several conflicting sources on the web, none of which I trust. And does anyone think it would have made an excellent book, and perhaps know if it has?
Second question: Who thinks that Morgan ap Bleddyn, Llewellyn’s chaplain (or confessor? I forget) in Here Be Dragons, is the son of Bleddyn ap Ranulf, AKA Gilbert Fitz Ranulf, and Sharon decided to find a way to connect between two fictional characters she liked a lot?
I just came across this by accident (sorry for the double post), and had to post it. I think it’s hilariously absurd, of course, which is why I’m posting it:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fiction%20writing
Check out term two, ‘Ranulfism’.
EC, many thanx for the post on John Marshal; I just read it now and as always am amazed at how resiliant, tenaceous, and resourceful people were back then. Looking at my office coworkers and bosses I sometimes wonder how long we would last back there in the MA.
I bought the Greatest Knight a month ago, haven’t read it yet but was smiling while reading the first paragraphs since I recognized the story from having read Sharon’s “Saints” – didn’t feel so guilty anymore for straying from SKP to another author ‘-)
SKP/Ken, thanx for the link to Lady Moppet, quite witty, imaginative and funny. Could make a greyt book aka Alianore Audley.
SHARON– looks like you will be posting a Loooong Blog as soon as you can make it back-LOL.
WE MISS YOU! Hoping your research is going successfully well…
Bella. Echo that!
SKP are you stuck in Carcassonne (could be worse and what did you think of the ‘Fitou?’) Did you meet up with Richard and Berengaria?
Come home soon, I have become obsessed (in your absence) with Lady Moppet of Yorkshire, mistress (whore?) of King John. I need to get out more and/or find another cyber mate!
Hello all,
I have to thank Sharon for posting the link to the Lady Moppet stories, and everyone else for their kind words about Lady M.
Ken, Lady Moppet wants it made clear that she is not a whore. The reason she knows this is that she doesn’t get regular wages (the other court whores do).
I’m intrigued by the idea of a Constance/Clemence mix-up as I always found the idea that Constance was one of John’s mistresses very hard to believe. But Susan Howatch must have come across it in her research for her 19th century saga Penmarric, which is based on Henry II and his children, because in that novel John’s character has an affair with his sister-in-law. She does get a good plotline out of it!
Lady Moppet, really!!
Aren’t you supposed to be a little bit occupied by saving your angelic son Oscar Fitzroy from the evil 8yr old queen Isabella?? What are you doing over here? Shame on you!
By the way, a ‘whore’ who is unpaid, is doing whatever she (he?) does for love alone! Isn’t that nice?
Salut Sharon,
On n’en peut plus! Tu nous manques…. reviens vite sur ton Blog…nous t’attendons tous avec impatience!
Hi Koby,
I hope there is information- books, journals etc- about Raoul and Petronilla. I liked their characters so much I named two of my pets- a beautiful pair of breeding finches- after them. I don’t know of anything written about them but if anyone has any information I would be very interested as well.
Hi to everyone else,
While Sharon has been away I have read ‘The Adventures of Alianore Audley’ by Brian Wainwright and ‘Cleopatra’s Daughter’ by Michelle Moran. I loved both books and would highly recommend them. If they are not already there put them on your TBR piles.
Hi Miss Moppet,
nice to see you here!
Sharon beeing away (she knew what she was doing directing us to your story), my first – and last visit- of the day has been you. As I’m reading both Sharon’s Eagle….. and Elizabeth’s Marshal’s…. I’ve the strangest flashes at the corner of my vision. My near and dear have got the link to your story we all enjoy it very much.
I’ll second Monica’s welcome, and say hello to Miss Moppet as well.
I’m planning to order Cleopatra’s Daughter for Hannukah. I can’t wait for it.
And in other matters, today Bridget of York, the tenth child and seventh daughter of Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville was born, as was Charles le Téméraire, Margaret of York’s husband and brother-in-law to Edward.
And today, Alfonso VIII of Castile, who married Eleanor (Leonora) was born.
Monica and Koby, thank you so much. Lady Moppet is on hiatus at the moment as I’ve finished the story, but I hope she will eventually return!
Since Sharon isn’t here, I have a question for all of you who read the Blog. What cover do you all have for your copies of Sunne in Splendour? Mine is a picture of knights facing each other with a castle in the background. I ask this because I just received the October issue of BBC History, and the main article is about Henry V. Anyway, the picture on my copy of Sunne in Splendour is also in the October issue. And, there’s a caption which says the picture is from a 15th century French Manuscript which shows the battle of Agincourt. So the picture is a bit innacurate. Just thought I’d point this out. I don’t know if Sharon knows about it.
Iechyd da,
Dave
I have two different copies–The Penguin Books edition with a purple cover and golden letters and a crown in the middle.
And I have the Ballantine Books edition with Cover illustration, Henry V at the Battle of Agincourt, courtesy of The Granger Collection which has the same description of yours, Dave (knights facing each other with a castle in the background).
I also have the Ballantine paperback cover (http://www.amazon.com/Sunne-Splendour-Sharon-Kay-Penman/dp/0345363132/ref=pd_rhf_shvl_3) w/ the illustration of Henry V at Agincourt. I’m sure Sharon is fully aware that it’s not actually an illustration of Edward or Richard or anyone else in Sunne. But it is an illustration of a battle from roughly the same time period (to a first approximation), and Sunne is chock-full of battles that could easily have looked just like that, so it’s an acceptable substitution. I think it’s a great cover — I much prefer it to the newer St Martin’s cover, or the original Holt cover (which were the only other covers I could view on Amazon).
Dave-
I used to have the original copy of Sunne from when it came out in the 80s but since it was my grandmothers, she took it back to her place. Now I have the brand new cover that came out by St. Martin’s Griffin. It has one knight kicking the other knight’s butt on a Red cover.
I would really like to know more about the article on Henry V in BBC History! I have completely taken on the entire Plantagenet time period. I would really like to know more about Henry V if you wouldn’t mind sharing?
Bella, Suzanne, Brenna,
I have the Ballantine edition of Sunne, and I’m definitely fine with the cover. I just hadn’t realised that, that was a scene from Agincourt, and was wondering if anyone else was aware of it.
As for putting up information on the Henry V article, it’s a very lengthy article, and I am technology impaired to say the least. But if someone can walk me through how to do it, and I could get an email address from you Brenna, I would be happy to send it on to you. I do have a printer/copier/scanner, so it shouldn’t be too much of a problem. Or if you have a mailing address I could copy it and send it on to you. Let me know the easiest option.
Iechyd Da,
Dave
Brenna,
I also found a list of books about Henry V. I don’t know if they’re historical fiction, or biographical, or just plain history books, but here they are for you. 1415: Henry V’s Year of Glory by Ian Mortimer, Warrior King: The life of Henry V by Keith Dockray, Henry V by Christopher Allmand, Agincourt by Juliet Barker, and Agincourt: A New History by Anne Curry. Hope this helps.
Iechyd Da,
Dave
I have the Battle of Agincourt on my cover as well. In other matters: Today Louis VII married Adele of Champagne, who would give birth to Philip, and Fulk of Anjou and Jerusalem, the father of Geoffrey le Bel died.
Mine is the Penguin publication of 1984. The cover is of a sumptuously dressed horseman, John V11 Palaeologus (1391-1448), Eastern Roman Emperor, as one of the Three Kings, taken from a frieze by Benozzo di Lese di Sandro Gozzoli at the Palazzo Medici-Riccardi, Florence in 1460.
Dave-
I’m fine with either option, depending on which is easiest for you. My e-mails is brg002@gmail.com. E-mail me and we can chat further about this.
My cover doesn’t have a castle in the background..is it the same one you have or something different? If it is a different cover, I’m curious to know if that cover is a more accurate depiction than the earlier version. Interesting question!
Oh and thank you for the list! I will see what I can find on Amazon and add them to my shopping list. Since joining this blog, but monthly amazon purchases have gone through the roof. If I keep up, I’ll have to move into a bigger place for all of my books.
Bonjour, mes amis. I made it safely home, but I’ve been camped out at my chiropractor’s, as my back pain flared up during the trip. This meant having to spend a lot of time sitting in French cafes drinking wine, which was good, but it also meant missing a visit to Le Mans, which was not good. Just when my chiropractor had gotten me mobile again and the jet-lag had finally eased, I found myself in need of emergency dental surgery involving (shudder) root canal. So between the residual pain and the interesting side-effects of the pain-killers, I am in no shape to tackle a blog yet. Aside from the back troubles, I had a wonderful time; it was France, after all. I fell utterly under the spell of Carcassonne and had a magical day in Poitiers, will tell you about the hunt for Eleanor’s Eagle as soon as I am on the mend.
Bienvenue chez vous Sharon!
We missed you as you can probably tell from the posts. Thank God for Lady Moppet! I got quite obsessed with her adventures, but I’m feeling better now!
Sorry to hear about your back and teeth probelms. Get well soon.
Welcome back Sharon,
Can’t wait to hear all about your adventures!
Dave, my cover of Sunne is an illustration by Gino d’Achille. In the foreground is a discarded crown sitting in a bush. There are a broken sword, what I think is some sort of pike and a helmet lying on the ground. In the background there is a picture of a castle. On the back cover are drawings of Richard and Anne (Richard I think is looking just a little too handsome movie star for my liking).
My favourite Sharon book cover is on my hardcover copy of Time and Chance. On the front is ‘Lion with a frieze’ which is credited as being in the Metropolitan Museum of Art. On the back cover is a lovely picture of Sharon in Wales. Sharon was that picture taken at Dolwyddelan castle?
I hope you get well soon as well, Sharon. I can sympathize regarding back pains – 6 months ago it turned out I have flat feet which had never been treated, and the arches had almost collapsed. This caused problems with my knee caps, which in turn gave me back pains – it was hard to stand up straight.
Sharon,
It’s good to see your back. Despite the back, and teeth problems, I hope you had a good time. I can’t really sympathise with you on the teeth problems, as when I had a wisdom tooth removed I was on knock-out gas, and don’t remember too much. As for the back problems mine went away when I switched from a soft to a firm mattress. I hope that, that is all yours would need.
It was a bit of a shock to learn that the cover on my copy of “Sunne in Splendour” was actually a scene from Agincourt. But, upon close inspection I do notice the Fluer de lys flying on one of the flags. Anyway, it’s nice to have you back, and I look forward to reading a new blog when you’re back on east coast time.
Nos Da,
Dave
Sharon, this is just to say I hope you’re feeling better very soon. Looking forward to hearing about the trip.
Sharon, I hope you are feeling much better today than the previous past days. I want to be positive and think that the ‘punishments’ for having too much fun are over–LOL. And while we await for you Sharon to tell us about your adventures in France, I wanted to share with all of you an interesting Living the History Blog by Elizabeth Chadwick’s on Empress Matilda. She’s posted very interesting pieces of ‘Akashic Notes’ about her earlier years, for now… and I’m sure you will enjoy it! Below is the link:
http://livingthehistoryelizabethchadwick.blogspot.com/2009/11/empress-matilda-some-akashic-notes.html
Yesterday, the 16th, Henry III (I say IV) of England, John’s son and Joanna’s brother died, as well as Saint (Queen) Margaret of Scotland, mother of David I and Matilda (Edith) of Scotland, mother of the Empress Maude.
Today, Adelaide of Maurienne, secod wife of Louis VI died. She was the mother of Louis VII, and Eleanor’s mother-in-law.
Brenna,
The article about Henry V is on the way. You should get it by Saturday at the latest.
Iechyd Da,
Dave.
And Today, Edward I ‘Longshanks’ of England was crowned.
Dave-
I got it! Thank you! I haven’t had the opportunity to read it, but I’m sure it will be great. Thank you again for being so sweet!
Brenna,
That’s Ardderchog(excellent). I hope you enjoy it. By the way, the picture on pages 28-29, is the picture on my cover of “Sunne in Splendour”. I’ve had a subscription to BBC History Magazine for over two years now, and I always look forward to getting it in the mail. I could even send an article to Sharon about Richard III, but my copy of the magazine is out on loan right now. Anyway, enjoy the articles.
Iechyd da,
Dave
Maybe this is something I should look into subscribing to! Thanks again Dave!
Today Perkin Warbeck, who claimed to be Richard, duke of York was hanged. More importantly to my mind, today Margaret of York, Duchess of Burgundy also died.
Brenna,
So, what do you think of Henry? A great king in his day? certainly. But, leaders weren’t expected to be humane to the enemy back then, as they are today.
Just be ready to shell out if you do subscribe to BBC History. I payed $150.00 for a two year subscription. But, when you consider the exchange rate, and the fact that it’s being shipped from “Across the pond” I guess it’s not a bad price to pay.
Iechyd Da,
Dave
Oh, by the way, incase I forget, Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
Cheers,
Dave
Hello SKP and everyone,
I just wanted to stop by and say that I enjoy so much the discussion that happens here on this blog–I frequent quite a few websites and it’s nice to see some civility in action in the comments section.
To answer a question from a previous blog posting, my 8th grade English teacher introduced me to “When Christ and His Saints Slept” in 1998 (sorry if I’m old-ing anyone), and I’ve never looked back. Sharon, your books have become old friends to me. When I was in high school, I even took to marking favored passages with folded corners; when re-reading books now, it’s fun to imagine which part I loved when I first turned down the corner.
I’m currently re-reading “Falls” and I can’t help but wonder why Simon doesn’t have a bigger profile here in the US. I know he’s depicted in the Capitol Rotunda, along with some of history’s great “law-givers,” but in both my political science and history classes in college, he never got more than a sentence or two. Maybe I feel this is an injustice because of the high regard I hold for him (despite his flaws)?
Also, I have to blame you for a lifelong fascination with Eleanor of Aquitaine: I wrote a 42 page biography of Eleanor for my substantial paper requirement in my history major, and recently portrayed her in a “Meeting of the Minds” (Steve Allen, anyone?) for a class I’m taking in law school. I love her more than I can express, and spent far too much money on a costume…I couldn’t go for anything that was less than 50% time period accurate. I think she’s a survivor. There’s no way she’d stomach being thought of as a victim.
And there’s nothing I’d like more than to visit Wales. Sigh. It’s all your fault 🙂
Thank you, and I hope you’re feeling better!
Michelle
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