Hi, everybody. The second part of the book tour went well, too. We had a smaller turnout at Books and Company in Dayton, but the bad weather earlier may have been a factor; we were hit by the same storm that flooded Louisville. The weather was much better the next day in Ann Arbor, and we had eighty-seven people there, which is very good for me since I’m neither famous nor infamous! The best part of the tour, though, was getting to meet some of my new friends from the blog and Facebook, and to see some old friends in Dayton and Ann Arbor. And of course there was Dave’s Welsh cakes!
I’d hoped to post a new blog earlier in the week, but I’ve been doing on-line chats at Goodreads.com and Librarythings.com, while having to make some emergency visits to my chiropractor; if not for that dear man, I’d be making regular pilgrimages to Lourdes.
Ken, we are all so grateful for the research you’ve been doing about Joanna and Llewelyn’s children. I haven’t had a chance to go over it yet, but I’d like to share it with our blog members. I am not computer-savvy—classic understatement—so I will need help in doing that. Should I copy and paste it into a blog entry of its own? Or is there an easier way?
I have a few items of interest for my fellow book-lovers. The BBC has compiled a list of one hundred books; they estimate that the average person has only read six of them. One of my Facebook friends has kindly posted this on my Facebook wall if any of you want to check it out and see how many of the books you’ve read. And Amazon has posted a list of the ten best books of 2009—so far.
Okay, on to your questions. After this blog, I’ll go back to responding to some of your questions and comments as they come in. Gayle, if you’d like to write about Ranulf’s Welsh mother, go ahead and give it a shot. She was only a memory in Saints, so I don’t feel territorial about her. Cindy, thanks for mentioning bookdepository.com, which doesn’t charge an international postal fee. James, I’d love to go to Portland on a book tour; they’ve sent me there in the past, but not for a while. And I loved the thought of you happily snipping away at the red roses. Cece, I laughed out loud at the image of you tossing a book into the path of your husband’s lawn mower; Elizabeth Chadwick calls books like that “wall-bangers.”
Suzanne, I deliberately chose not to take the reader into Thomas Becket’s head in Time and Chance. He was an enigma during his own lifetime and his abrupt “conversion” was as baffling to many of his contemporaries as it is to us. (Loved your WTF comment, Kristen!) Not everyone agreed with my decision to let the readers make up their own minds about Becket’s motivations, but it was one I felt comfortable with, and I still do. I personally was in agreement with my poet-prince Hywel, who saw Becket as a chameleon, changing his colors to match his environment. I don’t mean that he was a hypocrite, just that he was a complex man—like his former friend the English king. I think the best biography of Becket is the one written by Frank Barlow. And I would definitely recommend Dr Warren’s biography of Henry, Kristen; it remains the most comprehensive study of Henry’s reign.
Joyce, I’m so pleased that you found Geoffrey so interesting. I’ve always found him to be the most intriguing of the brothers, the one most maligned by historians. It is fascinating to speculate how history might have been changed if he’d not died in that tournament. Assuming that Richard still died without a legitimate heir, Geoffrey would likely have become King of England, for in a war of wills between Geoffrey and John, my money would have been on Geoffrey and Constance.
Hilary, I’ve not read any of Susan Cooper’s books; truthfully, I am not drawn to fantasy. Ah, Koby, how I wish I could do a book tour in Israel! Same for Australia. But publishers almost never send writers out of the country. Only once did my British publisher pay my airfare—for the Sunne tour—although they would always set up a tour if I came over on my own. I’d seriously consider a trip to Israel on my own if I didn’t have such a tight deadline for Lionheart.
Now…how about another book giveaway? This one is for Falls the Shadow. We recently learned that the St Martin’s edition of Shadow does not have a book club questionnaire, unlike Sunne, Dragons, and The Reckoning. St Martins is interested in remedying that, so we’re looking for reader questions. Anyone have any to suggest for Shadow? All questions will be entered in the drawing, as we’ve done in the past.
I am going to have to wrap this up now as I am having some serious problems with Word. Actually, I think the culprit is my new wireless keyboard, which has been giving me nothing but grief. I’ll close with a brief comment on Davydd ap Llewelyn’s illegitimate son. No, I was not aware of his existence when I wrote Shadow. Let me correct that—I’d heard of him, but wasn’t convinced that he was truly Davydd’s son. So I found your comments, Ken and Koby, to be absolutely fascinating. If only I’d had access to the Internet when I was writing Dragons!
August 14, 2009
Hi Sharon… I suppose if I were to put a question in on “Falls The Shadow” it would come down to either Henry III or the status of the Jews in the novel.
For Henry, my question would be what sources influenced your interpretation of his character? It always seems to me that for a king with so long a reign, comparatively little is known of his character beside some of the other medieval monarchs who reigned for far shorter periods.
As for the status of the Jews in the period, I was always impressed by your decision to leave historical hindsight out of the formula and present even your protagonist, Simon de Montfort, with anti-Semitic attitudes. I expect this was difficult for you, but historically truthful. The question then: do you find it challenging to write your protagonists with parochial attitudes likely to alienate them from the modern reader and how do you overcome the challenge to maintain them in the reader’s sympathies?
BTW, in reference to your friend’s Robin Hood reading list a few blogs back… I would highly recommend HODD by Adam Thorpe, as different an approach to the subject as we are ever likely to see without crossing over into fantasy!
The What-Ifs of history: Had Geoffrey (or even Arthur), instead of John, succeeded Richard as King of England, it is likely that there would have been no Magna Carta. Based on his history among the Bretons and his missions for his father, Geoffrey was much more adept at accommodation and diplomacy than his brothers were. By the same token, if Richard III had prevailed over Henry Tudor 300 hundred years later, England might still be a Catholic country today.
Hi Sharon
No, I don’t think my paper should take over your one of your blogs – your other fans might stage a riot!
However, you might, once you’ve had a chance to go over it/edit it/want some changes made/etc, place it in your ‘Sharon’s Research Recommendations’ or in a special edition ‘Newsletter’ perhaps on the subject of HBD and Llywelyn and Joanna’s children. You could then refer to it in your next blog or Q & A session and whoever is interested could then look it up on your home page.
I think it may be a blessing in disguise that the internet wasn’t up and running when you wrote HBD! You might have got bogged down just enjoying the research! The Internet is such a useful tool that I spend more time than I should surfing the genealogy and history pages and Othon is giving me grief! I am off to the South of France tomorrow to renew our story, but will keep in touch with my favourite author’s blog via an Internet Irish pub! How good is that??
Hi Sharon,
For the bookclub questionnaire.
On the memorial for Simon de Montfort in Evesham it says, “Here were buried the remains of Simon de Montfort, Earl of Leicester, pioneer of representative government…” Did Simon truly believe in the need for reform or did he want to summon knights to parliament to gain himself more allies?
As the saying goes ‘Behind every great man there is an even greater woman’. How true is that for Eleanor ‘Nell’ de Montfort?
History labels Edward I as ‘The Hammer of the Scots’. In what ways are we seeing that invading and conquering king of the future start to emerge?
Sharon, you may not have heard that Sam the koala (the one being given a drink of water by a firefighter) had to be euthanased. She was recovering well from her burns but she also had chlamydia which is a disease that affects a lot of the koala population. I’m not sure how I fell about the fact that she is going to be stuffed and put on display in a museum. A lot of other injured wildlife have recovered well though.
Paula, I am so sorry to hear about Sam the Koala. She’d become a symbol of survival for the world, I think. I don’t like the idea of stuffing her, though. I’ve actually heard about people who had their pets stuffed, too, and that has always given me the creeps. At least that iconic photo of Sam and the firefighter lives on.
Sharon
Just went on Wikipedia (I know, I know – it’s inaccurate etc etc but it’s also accessible) and this is what’s said about poor Princess Alys – “It was said of Alys that “except for her looks, the tales were none too good”, as she was considered promiscuous throughout her life.”
So what did happen to her after her brother, her fiancee and her nearly father in law and maybe lover, all treated her badly? I would like to think she had some happiness in her life after she was returned to France.
Sharon,
I’m working on the Reckoning and finding that my mother wasn’t far off when she said it was just sad. The question I would pose for Shadow is: What made Simon the icon he is today, circumstances or the man? Ever since I took an American Presidency class in college, I’ve often wondered, would the “great” Presidents of our country be considered so great if they came along at a different point in time? Would Lincoln have succeeded in becoming one of our greatest Presidents if he would have come even 50 years earlier? Likely not. Circumstances play a significant part in making an icon an icon. Would Simon be as popular or have the legacy he has if he would have “led the charge” during Henry II’s reign? Likely not. But I leave it up to others to see if they agree.
I do have a couple of questions/comments. First, I don’t think you put King John in too positive of a light. I think you showed his demons that he likely struggled with since birth (can’t be easy knowing that your mother was not interested in you). I think he loved his children but was so caught up in his own need to be loved, he didn’t do his family justice.
Do you know what really happened to Arthur? Why isn’t that as controversial as what Richard III supposedly did to his nephews? I thought John was going to allow Arthur’s sister to marry. Whatever happened to that idea?
I haven’t finished the Recknoning yet, but I already have an entire list of questions in mind just in case not all are answered by the end! My mother and I already planning a trip to Wales in the next two years. If anyone has any recommendations for planning/visiting, I would really appreciate it! Sharon, I know you have visited Wales, any suggestions you have would be most welcome. I’ve already used the websites you posted on your website. Thanks by the way for that!
I hope your back is getting “straightend out.” Bad pun? Take care.
Joyce, I’d like to think Alys had some happiness in her life, too, after the shabby way she’d been treated by all the men in her life. She was finally turned over to her brother Philippe in 1195. He immediately married her off to the young Count of Ponthieu. At this time, Alys was nearly 35; she’d been born in October of 1160. Her bridebroom was in his teens; I’ve seen the age given as 16 or 17. We know nothing of their marriage, but it would have been almost miraculous if they’d been able to overcome all the hurdles in their path–the age difference, the scandalous rumors swirling about Alys, etc. She did have a child, though, a daughter, so I’d like to think motherhood gave her the gratification she lacked in other areas of her life.
And as sad as Alys’s story is, the story of her younger half-sister Agnes is even more tragic. She was sent off at age 8 to wed the young son of the Emperor of Byzantium. Soon after he mounted the throne, a cousin staged a coup, and he was murdered not long after, his body thrown in the River Bosphorus; the cousin had forced him to sign his own mother’s death warrant. The cousin then ruled alone as Andronicus Comenus, and forced Agnes, then aged 12 to marry him. His reign was so cruel and vicious that he was eventually overthrown. He fled with Agnes and his favorite concubine, but they were captured and brought back to Constantinople. The women were spared, but he suffered a horrible, lingering death at the hands of the mob. Agnes then disappeared from history. We know she eventualy wed again, but not much else. It is difficult to imagine a young girl enduring horrors like that. And her loving brother Philippe did nothing whatsoever on her behalf. (Sorry, Christy, but he didn’t.)
Sharon
PS I would discount that snarky comment in Wikipedia about Alys’s so-called promiscuity. I”d wager they don’t cite any medieval sources for that. If she did have an affair with Henry, she can hardly be blamed for that. And I’ve never heard any hint of scandal about her marriage to the Count of Ponthieu.
Sharon and Joyce, Thank you both for defending Alais! I am not sure what source Wikipedia was quoting, if any, when it mentioned her supposed promiscuity, but whatever the case, I am heartened to see you both defend our Princess. She had a hard enough life as it was without casting aspersions on her now that she is dead. In my novel, THE QUEEN’S PAWN, (April 2010 from NAL) Alais strikes out on her own, or at least attempts to, as she embarks on an affair with Henry II, but I would never suggest that an affair with a crowned king, taken up for political reasons, makes Alais a wanton. Thanks again for speaking up in her defense. It is so easy to cast stones at historical figures. Philippe Auguste is not here to raise his sword in his sister’s defense (no guarantee that he would, at any rate, unless it served some political purpose of his own).
Brenna, abetter question baout Richard III would be why his supposed murder of his nephews was so much worse than the extermination Henry VII and VIII did to the remainder of the York family. In Daughter of Time it was put perfectly. Unfortunately, I can’t find my copy, but the gist of it was ‘Why is Richard remebered as an evil abomination for the murder of his nephews, while Henry VII and VIII are seen as strong, needed kings despite their extermination of the family of York?’
Personally, I think John was judged lighter than Richard as he was never really judged. Only his enemies accused him of the crime, while he was alive – Richard was accused for it after his death, and the Tudor/Lancaster propaganda promoted it. Arthur was somewhat older, and an enemy – The Princes were children and ‘innocents’. Also, John was (unjustly?) stained so black by later actions – the execution of the Welsh hostages, his entire attitude towards the Barons – that the possible execution of his nephew was overshadowed.
And John planned to marry Eleanor (his niece) to someone as long as he had Brittany, so as to legitimize his claim, pacify the Bretons, and so forth. When he lost the battle, he lost hte chance to regain Brittany, so she was of no use again.
Sharon, it was nice to meet you and hear you speak in Ann Arbor. I very much enjoyed your talk, and was pleased to see so many people there.
Regarding the Wikipedia article about Alys (and Wikipedia in general):
There is a list of sources, some of them medieval (Robert of Torigny, Roger of Howden, Gerald of Wales). Unfortunately, no source is given for the “snarky” quote that Joyce posted.
Studies have shown that Wikipedia is generally as reliable as the Encylopedia Britannica, much to Britannica’s chagrin. Would I use it as my primary source? No, but it’s a fine place to start, just like any encyclopedia. As I teach my students, check the sources provided, and outside links. Sure, any article can be vandalized, but generally those edits are corrected fairly quickly. If it sounds weird, go back and check the article in a week or two. Check the facts from other sources. Just don’t think that Wikipedia is “unreliable” or not to be trusted. It’s no more so than any other information on the internet, and may actually be better.
Ken, I’d love to see the research you’ve found. At one time I was very interested in that question because I thought some of my family lines stretched back to Llewellyn (sp.?). Alas, I later found research disputing those lines. And the lines I initially found were in books, not on the internet. Some had been published in the 19th century, others dated back to the Visitations in the 1500s, if I recall correctly.
Mike
While waiting for SKP, if you would like to give me your email address, I’ll send you a copy (pre-edited version before ‘she who knows all’ has a go’).
From what I have read from experts (genealogists much more knowledgeable than I), the ‘Visitations’ of the 16th century, need to be taken with a pinch of salt!!
My ‘findings’ are simply a review (with some input from my own Welsh- based sentiments) of the viewpoints of many independent genealogists, who have spent years translating old manuscripts and chronicles and the conclusions therein represent very little scholarly input from myself. However, I find the whole subject satisfying, and I wish that I had started sooner!!!!
Suffice it to say that I think that the evidence that Gwladus Ddu was the legitimate daughter of Llywelyn and Joanna, as was also their fourth daughter Susanna, overwhelming and I will take some convincing otherwise!!
Any takers??
Thanks, Ken. Contact me at mike at fowlervillehistory dot org.
Brenna,
If you are planning a visit to Wales I would suggest the following:
Visit in the summer but avoid last week in July & all of August if you can as the schools are off then. Also be prepared for rain – lots of it!!!!
Consider trying to visit a Welsh & a Norman castle in the same day or close together. It really helps you to see the difference in resource & power in a new way.
Check websites for re-enactments, most castles are owned by Cadw (the Welsh don’t like vowels!!!) but some are in private ownership like Pembroke.
Remember Britain is a lot smaller than the US so a visit to Warwick or Chester wouldn’t take you long.
Hope you enjoy your trip.
Brenna,
While in Wales you must see Devils Bridge. It’s located in Mid-Wales, and while the bridge is nothing spectacular, the trail underneath is brilliant. You could swear you were in a tropical rainforest instead of Mid-Wales. There are plenty of Water falls, and over all, it is a very romantic spot. I could name plenty of places to visit, but that is a must.
Iechyd da,
Dave
Ken – I would be interested in your material about Gladys as well. Please email me at marilynbauer at comcastdotnet. Take out the spaces, at, and dot as usual. Thanks a bunch! Marilyn
brenna, Brecon,- to- Bilthe-wells. Drive, is Sublime! Enjoy, A sunday dinner in a Nice Pub, or Hotel (Crickhowell)…….Sorry! if The Spelling Is off a bit?. James
Sharon,
thanx for the medieval bookstore website; just checked it out and found one part of the two-part J.J. Norwich Sicily conquest books. You had mentioned them in an earlier blog and I’ve been madly searching for them. Out of print and out of sight. Also, on bookdepository.co.uk I saw the following title in case your readers are still interested in that subject: “Sexuality in Medieval Europe: Doing unto others” by Ruth Mazo Karras.
Love your blog, can’t wait for your next book!
Hi, Britta. I’m glad you had good luck at the Medieval Book shop; I’ve found some great buys there. I think you’ll like the Norwich books. They are so beautifully written that they read like novels. But he is way off base with his treatment of Richard Lionheart. He doesn’t like Richard much, and that is perfectly fair. But he buys into a theory that has since been thoroughly discredited, that Eleanor was the moving force behind Richard’s marriage to Berengaria. Of course he wrote it in 1170 and subsequent research has shown it was Richard’s doing, although Eleanor obviously helped a lot by escorting Berengaria to him in Sicily. But he makes it sound as if Eleanor was chasing her son all over Europe, trying to corner him long enough to make him take a wife! He is spot-on, though, in the non-Richard portions of the book.
Thanks, too, for alerting everyone to the Karras book. If I had only one book on medieval sexuality in my library, it would be hers. So go buy it, people! Sharon
Hi, Brenna.
I’d be happy to offer suggestions for your Welsh trip. I do that for readers all the time; some of them call them Penman pilgrimages to the places featured in my Welsh trilogy. It will be fun to do it for a friend.
The general consensus is that Arthur was murdered at John’s command, though we don’t have proof positive of that. I personally have no doubts, though. For one thing, he soon began to treat Arthur’s sister Eleanor as if she were the heiress to Brittany. I’ll add some more information about Arthur and his sister in my next blog. Their mother Constance died relatively young, just 40, but I was always glad she did, for she was spared knowing what happened to her children. Same for Geoffrey. Though if he’d lived, his son probably would have, too, and Eleanor would have had a real life, instead of spending forty years in gilded confinement. And yes, John did try to marry her off at one point, but it fell through. So did Richard. She was supposed to wed the son of the Duke of Austria; this was part of Richard’s ransom settlement. And she was on her way to Austria in 1194 when her escort learned that the duke had died suddenly. So they turned around and returned to Normandy, and there went Eleanor’s one chance to have a life of her own. Sharon
PS Ken, I still think it would be better to put your research in a blog entry; I’m not sure how many people check out my research recommendations. I could do it at the same time I post my next blog, so readers would be happy, getting two blogs at once. What do you think?
Brenna, I can vouch for Sharon’s pilgrimage recommendations. I was a new fan a few decades back, had never written to an author before, but decided to ask the very same question you did. I didn’t expect a reply. I received a three page letter detailing where I might go and how I might get there, plus several other tips. I still have that letter somewhere…
I went many places listed in Sharon’s Welsh trilogy; a few that made a real impact was going to the church where Llywellan the Great is entombed, and seeing Joannas coffin. I remember Conwy in particular the castle, but from there I think I saw Swallow Falls. Saw several other places but its been too long ago to remember names. But do check with Sharon, she is not only a gold mine of information, but she is a very generous one as well 🙂
Hi everyone. New to this, so much to catch up on so forgive me if I repeat stuff or go on a bit.
Arthur – I think Barbara Erskine covered this one with the help of the Margam chronicler – John is reported as murdering Arthur by his own hand. The subsequent demise of the de Braose family suggests a grudge of some kind held by John and what more dramatic than witnessing the murder of his nephew?
John and Edward, bad kings? – well, no. John was the first king for whom material survives in detail which we do not have for other kings so there is a good deal more personal information available to illustrate his personality. Plus he met with several able rulers in other countries, home and abroad, which was unfortunate. We may not like Phillip II Augustus of France but boy he was good. Edward, as one lady I knew described him, was a git. He threw his weight around because he could. He succeeded in Wales but his centrepiece Caernarvon castle was never finished, and Scotland was not under English rule for long before Robert the Bruce took over. (Whether Robert was all that Scottish is another debate.) Without the continual infighting that marks the character of both Scotland and Wales from this period, he would not have been so successful.
Wales – beautiful for those who have never been. Yes the Welsh Welsh castles are interesting but need a far bigger dose of imagination as most are rubble. Castell y Bere is worth the trip into the unknown, stunning setting, peaceful. In a couple of days you can do the ring of Edwardian castles easily, but don’t leave out Garth Celyn, the palace of Llywelyn Fawr near Bangor. Not signed, need to know where it is to find it. Further afield, yes, Warwick, of course, but further south you have Rochester with its castle and cathedral next to each other. Tallest keep in the UK and the oldest surviving cathedral although Canterbury was founded first but only by a matter of months. The earliest parts of Rochester cathedral date to the 1080s, built by the same person as the White Tower in London, Colchester castle and Rochester castle itself. King John successfully laid siege to it hence it has one round tower.
Robin Hood – I like to think that King John, Edward or whoever else it was who came up against Robin Hood in the tales would be horrified to know that he is far more famous than they ever will be. According to Holt the first securely dated reference to a criminal with this name is Robert Hod at the York assizes of 25th June 1225 which puts him much earlier and in Yorkshire. The nickname ‘Robehod’ begins to appear frequently from 1265 onwards suggesting that the legend is already well entrenched the public imagination and holds specific meaning. Who the original was we may never know, those who wanted to wipe out an undesirable were quite good at it, see the total character assasination of Richard III. The poem Piers Plowman which refers to Robin Hood written in c.1377 talks of the ‘rhymes of Robyn hood and Randolf, earl of Chester’ is interesting as Randolf or Ranulf was the uncle of Robert of Huntingdon, another suggested identity for Robin Hood.
Hope my ramblings haven’t been too long and offer something new.
I just wanted to take a minute and thank everyone for their suggestions! I have written them all down and put them in my “Trip to Wales” folders. If there are any travel books or anything you can suggest, that would also be welcome.
Ken-I would be very interested in your research as well! Thanks for sharing your tidbits.
Hi Brenna. I presume you are coming from a long way to be planning your trip so far ahead. How long are you planning on staying? Are you just interested in the Llywelyn Fawr era or other history in Wales? There are lots and lots of prehistoric sites scattered across Wales some more extensive than others, a few unfinished motte and bailey castles that are unmarked and mostly forgotten, more recent history, remnants of the civil war unrest of Cromwell and Charles I, the National Library of Wales, some lovely views which sadly generally speaking, don’t inlcude the universities – monstrosities for the most part! Hen Coleg at Aberystwyth is better, and next to the castle.
I don’t know of any good travel books to be honest, but gobritannia.com/wales has some interesting info. Although the schools are out in August and a few weeks either side, the students are all at home so some towns are quieter, Bangor and Aberystwyth for instance. If you are driving, you WILL get stuck behind a caravan for miles and miles – generally speaking overtaking is impossible, and yes, it is Britain and it will rain but that is why it is so green. Take a good rain coat and wellies and you’ll be fine.
Have you formulated a vague idea of what you are going to do yet or is that too far ahead?
Brenna,
Here’s one I haven’t seen, but would like too. It’s in the June issue of BBC History magazine. The site is called Cosmeston Medieval village, in Glamorgan, Penarth to be exact. I know I would make sure to see it if I were going, since it would offer a view of Medieval village life.
Cheers,
Dave
Hi Brenna,
As you are finding out there are so many amazing places to visit in Wales. My personal favourite places are Criccieth, Dolbadarn and Dolwyddelan castles (older castles that are in ruins). The churches at Llanrwst and Trefriw are also great to visit (great for the history). I got goose bumps while trekking along the coast of the mainland and looking out over the Menai strait to the Isle of Mon (or Anglesey as it is now known). If you have a bit of time and can watch how the strait changes in different light levels you will hopefully be as amazed as I was. Some of my photos are amazing (and I am a very amateur photographer).
The first place I want to visit on my next overseas trip is Fontevrault Abbey in France. I was wondering if any of the readers of this blog have been there. Is it as amazing in real life as it looks on the internet?
Paula,
Fontevrault Abbey is truly amazing, one of my favorite places in the world. If you can, I would highly recommend that you consider spending a night at the hotel right on the abbey grounds. It is a 3 star hotel with a 4 star staff, built in what was once the abbey lazar house (leper hospital) and you’ll be able to eat in the dining room overlooking the cloisters. Best of all, while the regular tourists get kicked out at closing time, hotel guests have freedom of the abbey grounds. I got into the habit of popping over to the church in the evening to say goodnight to Henry and Eleanor. If you’re interested in the hotel, let me know and I’ll give you the contact information.
The abbey itself is still spectacular. The church is intact, of course, and the remarkable kitchen, plus other buildings. They have a garden which lists medieval plants and flowers, and there is an excellent gift shop with a wonderful selection of medieval books, and was I ever honored to find some of mine there! The church alone is well worth a visit, for unliike most medieval churches, which are deep in shadows, af Fontevrault it is blazing with light. And they have the four effigies of Henry, Eleanor, Richard, and Isabelle d’Angouleme, John’s second wife. Joanna was buried here, too, as was her son Raymond, but sadly their tombs have disappeared. Fonrevrault is an excellent location for touring the Loire Valley, too. It is close to Chinon Castle; they are in the process of renovating it, but it is not yet as well laid out as some I’ve seen. A lot of it still exists, though, and the view from the battlements is spectacular. Saumur is also close by, and it has a fairy-tale castle that, sadly for us, dates from the 14th century. It had a castle there in the 12th century, though, and Henry stayed there not long before his death. Andy yes, all you’ve heard about the wonderful wines of the Loire Valley is true.
Sharon
PS A caveat about the hotel. It closes in early November and reopens in the spring, so you’d want to keep that in mind. And the hotel restaurant has a deserved reputation for excellent cuisine. If I’m not mistaken, I believe it is open to non-hotel guests, so that would be a way to visit the old lazar house without staying at the hotel itself.
Genealogy tidbit about Alys: She was married to William Talvas, Count of Ponthieu. Their oldest daughter Marie was the maternal grandmother of Eleanor of Castile, wife of Edward I. So Alys became one of the ancestors of the English royal family after all.
Hello everyone–so back to the Shadow Book Club Questionnaire, here is one of the questions I have in mind about Davvyd ap Llewelyn. Could it be the Davvyd died more from a broken heart than from his actual kidney disease(???) or his physical ailment? When Isabella was asked if she knew Davvyd had been ailing for sometime, she really didn’t quite answer them… Did she really know about his ailment, or did Davvyd hide it well and saw it as a way out or as a deserved punishment for failing to reign as expected of him by Llewlyn Fawr? And this has nothing to do with believing that Davvyd was weak because I don’t believe he was. But I also feel that he could not forgive himself for losing so much territory to the English King in such a short time and that weighted much in his soul. Maybe after a while Davvyd truly thought that Llewelyn ap Gruffyd might be the “chosen one”.
Paula,
By any chance, are you a fan of Cadwalader’s ice cream? I love Cricieth, but Cadwalader’s ice cream is a nice bonus to the Castle, and Beach. And, don’t forget Lloyd George was born right down the road.
I really want to leave a question, so I can get entered to win the book, but I have to admit, it’s been a while since I’ve read Falls the Shadow. I do remember one thing I thought about for a long time after I finished, and maybe this would be a good question:
Do you think Simon de Monfort ever had a chance of bringing the Parlimentary system to the British monarchy without making an enemy of his brother-in-law, Henry III, or was he doomed from the start? What other factors do you feel significantly affected their relationship, besides the whole Parliment thing? Which factor(s) do you think had the harshest impact on their relationship?
I think Sharon made it quite clear in Falls the Shadow that a large part of Davydd’s death was a feeling of failure to keep his father’s legacy. Similiar to how it is made clear that Henry lost the will to live after John went over to Richard.
In other news, I’ve finally gotten Devil’s Brood! I can’t wait to start reading it and ask questions and make coments.
Hi all
Just to say that I have not had access to the internet for a few days – will post again soon
Hello! I don’t have a question for Falls the Shadow, unfortunately, but I do have another question – Sharon (or anyone, really), do you have any recommendations for biographies on Emma of Normandy? As a wife of two kings and mother of two more, I think she’s got to have an interesting story, and I am wondering if anyone has written anything on her. Are there any good biographies on her out there? Thanks! 🙂
Sara – The Hollow Crown by Helen Hollick is a great novel about Emma. Also Valerie Anand’s Gildenford trilogy covers this very interesting period of English history. I’ve become almost as big a fan of early pre-Conquest England as of the later Medieval era.
Hi, Sara,
I was going to mention Helen Hollick’s book, too. But you asked about non-fiction, and I am drawing a blank there, as Emma doesn’t live in my own medieval neighborhood. Does anyone else know of any biographies or historical accounts about Emma? I can ask Helen for you. But as I’ve explained in my blog, I don’t keep up with the current research about the characters in my earlier books or else I’d never get any new books written at all, and Helen might be like me that way. I’ll see what I can find out, though.
Sharon
Sharon: I would be interested in the contact information about the hotel at Fontevrault. My daughters and I are planning (dreaming) of doing our own “Eleanor Tour” in a couple of years. There is a tour company that does Eleanor of Aquitaine tours, but they go in May, which doesn’t work out for us. Thanks.
Sara, the bibliography at the end of Emma’s Wikipedia article includes three recent books:
Pauline Stafford, Queen Emma and Queen Edith: Queenship and Women’s Power in Eleven-century England (Blackwell, 2001)
Isabel Strachan, Emma: Twice-crowned Queen of England in the Viking Age (Peter Owen, 2005)
Harriet O’Brien, Queen Emma and the Vikings (Blooomsbury U.S.A., 2005)
I have not seen any of these books, but you might start with Frank Barlow’s biography of Edward the Confessor (1970). Incidentally, Professor Barlow died earlier this year in his late 90’s. One of my professors in graduate school mentioned that most medievalists seem to be long-lived. There are, of course, some exceptions, but the statement does seem to be generally true.
Malcolm, thank you so much for providing Sara with this information. I love how my readers look out for each other! I was so sorry, though, to hear that Dr Barlow had died; somehow I’d missed that. I highly recommend his biography of Thomas Becket, which I found far superior to the many others out there. Just off the top of my head, I can also recommend his The Feudal Kingdom of England; and he wrote a biography of William Rufus, which I have but haven’t gotten around to reading yet.
Sharon
PS Malcolm is quite knowledgable about Geoffrey of Brittany, and there aren’t many people who can say that, unfortunately!
Hi, Sara.
I have been in touch with Helen Hollick and she has generously offered to provide you with some recommendations. If you e-mail me, I’ll send you her e-mail address.
Sharon
Sharon,
I would love to know the contact information for the hotel at Fontevrault. I am starting to see a plan emerging for my trip (which unfortunately won’t be for a few years) and it will involve relatively long stays at a few different locations. I like the idea of being there for at least a few days or a week and going to the church to say goodnight to Henry and Eleanor.
Dave, it has been more than 10 years since I went to Criccieth. I can remember the castle ruins and the seaside but not much else. I was just overwhelmed to be somewhere that Llewellyn and Joanna had been. I spent most of my time in Wales all giddy and excited.
Brenna, if you visit Criccieth just down the road is the village of Portmeirion. I have seen it described as an ‘Italianate fantasy village’ and it is quite spectacular.
Sharon, while I am in the mood for reminiscing I want to thank you for inspiring the itineraries for my last two trips to England and Wales. I have been to Kennilworth, Lewes and Evesham. I have been to Tewkesbury Abbey, Middleham castle and Bosworth field. One of my favourite places is Henry the IIs keep at Dover castle. I sent you an e-mail about my trips several years ago and you sent me a lovely reply. The printout of that e-mail has lived in my treasured possessions box ever since.
I am really looking forward to reading about Richard in your next book.
Hi everyone. Sad about Dr Barlow, he was required reading, I can’t count the times I read and re-read Feudal Kingdom. The older academics are the best as they have had so much more time to absorb information. I was gutted to learn of RR Davies death a few years back. Amazing man.
Regarding the Simon de Montfort being doomed question, he pretty much was. England was very much before and after a country that needed a king albeit an increasingly accountable one. The person of the king was removed several times after Simon’s time, but the position of king always remained. The ruling elite like to feel that God had ordained someone above them and that it was not just one of the them who ruled. This attitude only gradually changed and we, in England, have yet to completely overcome it. We still have a queen who is our nominal ruler for all that we are governed by an elected group of people. Taxation to pay for foreign war was the impetus for a parliament. Accountablility and not removal of the king was the key. And of course Simon was French not long after the severing of the links with Normandy. When John lost Normandy in 1204 England became far more introverted and English. It coincided with a greater use of English as the language of State and the idea of Englishness and a national identity was growing. England was an independent state and not part of a cross channel empire.
I went recently to the abbey in Mortain as I was staying close by. Small but beautiful, and as these places always seem to be, after a rain storm, so peaceful. I went to Rivault in Yorkshire after a day of rain when the sun came out and the birds began to sing again. It was probably the most ethereal experience of my life. I was the only one there, no other visitors. Fountains, for all its scatter of buildings just couldn’t hold a candle to it.
Thank you so much Sharon! I will email you soon!
Hi, everyone. I will be happy to provide the contact information about that wonderful hotel at Fontevrault. But now I wanted to take a moment in remembrance of the last Plantagenet king of England, Richard III, who was slain at Bosworth Field on August 22, 1485. Rest in Peace, Richard. And take heart from knowing that there are Richard III groups all over the globe, and none for Henry Tudor!
Sharon,
The birthday present went over well.
Diolch yn fawr,
Dave
Haven’t read Falls in forever… don’t remember a lot of details…but I too have questions about Simon de Monfort and Parliament… was he self serving – or truly after real reform? And what books are out there about him?
Want to add to my earlier comment – here in NY, our politicians claim to be all about “reform” – but it’s all about power and being the head cheese and thus they were able to paralyze our government for 31 days… and I think it’s always been that way – doesn’t matter where you live… why would Simon de Montfort have been different?
Today is another momentous day for those who read your books, Sharon:
Geoffrey le Bel was born, John married Isabella, Innocent III declared the Magna Carta invalid, and Eustace the Monk was defeated in the Battle of Sandwich and summarily beheaded. Hurray for Richard Fitzroy!
Wow, Koby, I am impressed! You are clearly our Go-to Guy when it comes to matters medieval. I was asked in an earlier blog how I decided which scenes to dramatize in my historical novels. I confess that I’d have loved to write the scene in which Joanna’s half-brother Richard beheaded the renegade clerk and pirate, Eustace the Monk. But the book was so long by then that I couldn’t justify it in my own mind. Still, it would have been fun, if a bit gory.
I know a lot of Elizabeth Chadwick fans read my blog, so I want to pass the word on that there is a book giveaway for The Greatest Knight, which is being published in the US on September 1st by Sourcebooks. It is being held this week at http://historicaltapestry.blogspot.com/2…
Hi, me again. For some reason the URL I pasted above for the EC book giveaway isn’t working. When I checked it just now, I got one of those cryptic Can’t be Found Messages. But you can locate it yourselves by goggling Historical Tapestry’s website. Or you can go to Goodreads.com and All Things Medieval and just scroll down till you find Misfit’s post about the giveaway. It works fine there.
Okay, the above URL doesn’t give the full information. I don’t know why it still works on Goodreads in the curtailed version. But here is the full version:
http://historicaltapestry.blogspot.com/2009/08/announcing-Elizabeth-Chadwick-week.html
I doubt Simon de Montfort was any different to modern politicians the world over. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Simon probably had a wider view of the world than many others but his mind still worked in a similar way to those around him. He probably did believe in what he was doing but he was also very aware of the benefits to himself. He was not after a democracy, his marriage demonstrates that he was as eager as the next man to attach himself to royalty and all that kingship signified. As I said earlier, the person of the king may have been in danger, but the position of king never truly was.
I just have to add a comment (or two) about Simon de Montfort’s motives in challenging King Henry III. It wasn’t about his own power, it was about the King keeping his promises. Simon and Nell (his wife) had deceived Henry III about their need to marry and Henry never forgot or forgave them for making a fool of him. He was quite capable of making a fool of himself without any assistance from his smarter and more capable brother-in-law. Henry wouldn’t have lasted as long as he did on the throne without the assistance of his brother Richard and then his son Edward. He was incapable of keeping his word, conveniently forgetting time after time how Simon had assisted him. In Sharon’s books he was like a weathercock, veering according to the opinion of the last person he talked to. And then he was infatuated with his mother’s second set of children by De Lusignan, loading them with lands and honors, which the English barons rightly felt they had not earned and didn’t deserve. If Simon had wanted to seize the throne, he wouldn’t have had any support, so he didn’t, but he and Nell realised that they couldn’t depend upon Henry. It couldn’t have been comfortable feeling as if you were poised under the blade of a sword which was swung by a king who seemed to have no judgment. As Sharon stated in one of her books, “there are promises which must be kept and promises which can be broken. . . Henry didn’t seem able to tell the difference.
Thanks, Sharon! Incidentally, another event happened today: Marguerite d’Anjou died at the age of 52. A brave woman, even if on the wrong side.
And regarding Marguerite, who do you think was Edouard’s real father?
Actually, Gayle, the quote you give was about John, which is kind of ironic. I always thought Henry’s main problem was that he was an idiot. His problems with his siblings can be traced back to Isabelle abandoning him as a child, making him emotionally deprived. I always thought Henry was very similiar to Louis (or maybe the other way around).
yes kobe, Marguerite….what a sad, but noble Exsistance!The locals in bamburgh-castle, Still Call the Long-White (Daisys)…Marguerite;s! My favorie Castle@2 nd is Dunstanburgh7 miles Away ..Eduards Father Proberbly A Stanley?? Anyway…Some(Snake in the Grass)?? But I;n Bias,d Thanks to (Sunne in Splendor) My Favorite Book Ever! Anyway Fickle Fate Eh?? The Wreck of the White Ship?? Personally, I;m Just Glad Princes William N Harry……”Don;t Have An Appartment In The Tower Of London??…I Still don;t Trust Them. James
By strange coincidence, I picked up “Here Be Dragons” several weeks ago and just finished re-reading the trilogy. I delighted in your intelligent writing and historical perspective as much as the first time I read them over ten years ago! Searching the internet for a more complete geneological tree of the de Monfort’s, I discovered you were at Books & Co in Dayton, Ohio last week! ‘Jesu wept!’ …and so did I, having missed my chance to meet you!
Wendy
King Henry III reminds me of the young king, his uncle and namesake (and the first “Henry III”). I suspect that young Henry was the man for whom the adjective “feckless” was created.
I can’t see how Henry III’s innate inaptness for kingship can be put down to his sad childhood. The children of nobility had generally speaking little to do with their mothers as they were whisked away and taught to fight and hardened up, fostered to other great noble families and left to others to bring up. Wetnurses and nannies were the done thing, just think Queenie in Blackadder II. Elizabeth, the real one, hardly knew her mother as she was executed well before she was able to understand who she was. She was ignored by her father, seduced by ther step-mother’s husband, imprisoned by her half-sister and came within a whisker of execution herself yet she was the best monarch this country (England) ever had.
By accident of birth Henry rose to the throne and by luck and good health stayed there (again think of his father, fourth son and still made it to king or Alfred the Great, also a fourth son whose brother’s ruled before him). Some men were born kings and never reach that height, Robert of Gloucester for instance, others just were not, whether they were good men or not e.g. Stephen, great noble, hopeless king. Henry got the dodgey part of the gene pool. The ‘effective king’ gene skipped a generation.
Sharon – are you planning a trip to the UK?
RE: Travels
I can’t recommend a visit to Fontvrauld enough. One of my favorite photos is one I took across the street from the abbey of the sign for Place de Plantagenets. Tombs aside, the wonderful condition of the abbey gives great insight into the period. Between Chinon and Fontvrauld is a wonderful hotel called Chateau de Marcay. We had a tower room that had a sitting room at the top of the tower where I spent the night and awoke to church bells.
In Wales, a great break from the MA is a stop at Eweporia near Betws-y-Coed. They do a great demonstration of how the dogs work the sheep. Conwy is a good choice, having a lovely castle, extensive town walls, and a rather odd statue of Llewellyn. Keep your eyes open for a magical cat. A local feline was kind enough to lead me straight to a source of change for the car park. Of course it was gone when I came out. Maybe I had the Cheshire cat on the brain given that Alice was “born” nearby.
RE: John and the princes versus other royal murders
I suspect that the location of the murder of the princes in the Tower of London had a a good deal to do with the infamy. Far more people have visited the Tower than did the sights of the other murders. At least recently, there’s the added “benefit” of the skilled Yeoman Warder story telling. Add to that the ages of the victims and the romance of drowning in wine and the story was bound to be popular.
Sharon, I’m afraid your Facebook friend has fallen for a Meme. See http://johnnypez9.blogspot.com/2009/03/have-you-read-these-books.html.
Hi, Johnny. Thanks for posting this link. I read 40 of the books, with 2 “partials,” but I bet I’m a lot older than you and so I’ve logged more reading time! And I agree–no Mark Twain is beyond bizarre.
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