The Mother of Joanna of Wales, wife of Llywelyn ab Iorwerth
The Children of Llywelyn and Joanna.
Following my post on the children of Llywelyn Fawr and Joanna and the responses it received, I checked again through the genealogical pages on the subject of Gwladus Ddu. While it is true, as several genealogists point out, that in the absence of definite proof one way or another, the identity of the mother of Gwladus Ddu must remain ‘unknown’, I found no reason to change my personal conclusion that her mother was Joanna and not Tangwystyl.
One further source on the subject of their children is the following abstract from the ‘Kings and Queens of Britain’ an authoritative guide, published by Oxford University Press, page 106:
‘Llywelyn ab Iorwerth, b.1173, son of Iorwerth Drwyndwn (‘Flatnose’) and Marared, daughter of Madog ap Maredudd; acc. east Gwynedd 1195; married Joan, illegitimate daughter of King John, 1205; issue: Gruffudd (illegitimate), Dafydd, Gwenllian, Helen, Gwladus, Margaret, Susanna; died 11 April 1240; buried: Aberconwy.’
The singling out of Gruffudd alone as ‘illegitimate’ is significant.
The Mother of Joanna
First, let me pay tribute to Sharon. Her research for ‘HBD’, ‘Falls the Shadow’ and ‘The Reckoning’, carried out before the advent of the Internet, was truly outstanding. Practically everything she has written in that trilogy stands close examination today.
To prove that it is not only me that thinks so, let me quote one genealogist who is a great fan of Sharon: “I am very fond of Sharon Kay Penman’s books. Even though they are not purely biographical, I feel more comfortable relying on her work to ‘fill in the blanks’ (given the amount of research she obviously put into her books), than in actually citing some genealogical sources that I have come across in my own research (I’m sure we all run into sources like that). To anyone who has not yet read her work, I recommend it very highly, especially if you would like to get a feel for what life was like 800 years ago.”
That sums it up nicely! Now, on to the present:
Following the questions posed by Beth, Suzanne and Sandy in particular, I set about researching the identity of Joanna’s mother (referred to hereafter, for ease of reference as ‘Clemence’ not ‘Clementia’) through an affair with the to-be-king John. This task proved to be much more complex than I would have thought possible! After running up many blind alleys, mostly through trying to reconcile the chronology of one with the other, I have settled on what follows. I do not claim that what I have written is definitive in any shape or form, and the truth is that we will probably never be sure of her identity.
To start, the evidence is incontrovertible that John had TWO daughters named Joan (Joanna), as follows:
(a) The illegitimate Joanna, daughter of “Clemence,” was unquestionably born out of wedlock –– as is proved by Honorius III’s decree declaring her legitimate in April 1226, though without prejudice to the king or realm of England (i.e., giving her no claim to that throne). The decree, which has been transcribed from the original, unpublished Register of Honorius III (Reg. Vat. 13, fol. 122 ), states inter alia that “Johannes Rex anglie solutus te genuerit de soluta,” which, I’m told, translates as “King John of England, when unmarried, fathered you by an unmarried woman.”
This means Joanna can have been born no later than 1189 when John married Isabella of Gloucester. Her mother, “Clemence” was probably French or Norman, since evidence from the patent rolls of John’s reign shows that Joan was brought from Normandy to England in December 1203, to prepare for marriage to Llywelyn ab Iorwerth (see below). Joanna died in Feb 1237.
(b) John’s legitimate daughter Joan, by Isabella of Angouleme (married to John in 1200 at age 12!), was born at Gloucester on 22 July 1210 (see the Tewkesbury Annals in the Rolls Series, vol. 36.i, p. 59; the Worcester Annals, ibid., vol. 36.iv, p. 399; and the Rotuli Litterarum Patencium for John’s Reign, pp. 124, 143). This is the Joan who subsequently married Alexander II of Scotland and she died in 1238, some months after Joanna (this may account for some of the confusion evident between the two women). She left no issue by Alexander II.
Now, if we consider the whereabouts of John during the period when Joanna would have been conceived, we find the following:
John was born in December 1167. He was at most 21 and maybe younger than that when his daughter Joanna was born. She may well have been the eldest of all the children he fathered by his various mistresses.
1187 June - John in France when Chateauroux was being besieged
1187 June 23 - truce
1188 Jan. 30 - Henry returns to England, possibly with John in tow
1188 Summer - Henry sends John back to Normandy, crosses from
Shoreham to Dieppe; Henry then goes to France, John remaining in Normandy1189 June 12 - John at Le Mans when disarmed by Henry's order, and then
John fled or was led away for safety
1189 July 6 - Henry I dies in France
1189 Aug. 12 - Richard brings John back to England with him
1189 Aug. 29 - John married to Isabelle of Gloucester at Marlebridge
1189 Sep. 3 - Richard crowned at Westminster Abbey
1189 Oct. - Richard sends John into Wales to subdue the rebellious Welsh
1190 Feb. - John summoned to Normandy and forced on oath
not to set foot into England for three years
1190 June - Richard goes on crusade [John breaks his oath]
For our purposes, it is thought that the most important period, and the most
likely time for Joanna to have been conceived, is the 1187-9 period.
1187 - John spends virtually the entire year in France
1188 - John might have returned to England in January, but by
summer is sent back to France, where he appears to have
remained
1189 - John is apparently in France January - August, returning to England in August in preparation for his marriage on 29 Aug.
If John made no more unrecorded returns to England, it would appear that he spent about 80% of his time from January 1187 until his marriage, in France. He was at some point given the County of Mortain, in Normandy (before Richard's coronation).
The above information, given the period and also the fact that Joanna was brought to England from France in 1203 for her marriage to Llywelyn, lends credence to the idea that Joanna and her mother were of French/Norman origin.
Given also John’s well-known philandering during this period, there appears to be many candidates for the role of mother of Joanna!
The genealogists have identified at least six possible candidates:
- Clemence de Dauntsey
- Clemence le Boteler
- Clemence Pinel
- Clemence de Fougers
- Constance Duchess of Brittany
- Agatha de Ferrers
Taking the story of each of these ladies in turn, I found the following:
1 Clemence de Dauntsey
My previous post gave the information that Paget showed that it was Clemence de Dauntsey, who married Nicholas de Verdun. I believed that this was the Nicholas and Clementia to whom Henry 111 granted the custody of Susanna (as a hostage) in 1228. After another long search however, I could find no trace of a Clemence de Dauntsey in the records. I did find however, the opinion of one genealogist who clearly stated it as…’ I think that we (the genealogists) have established that there was no such person as Clemence de Dauntsey. That identification of the wife of Nicholas de Verdun was a blunder by Paget!’
I am happy to accept that conclusion, as further investigation of the records of the next Clemence proved more fruitful.
2 Clemence le Boteler
Clemence le Boteler was born about 1175 in Steeple Lavington, Wiltshire. Her father was Philip le Boteler (born circa 1150).
Clemence le Boteler married Nicholas de Verdun in 1202 (his second wife after his marriage to Joan Fitz Piers. Note, this marriage is not proven) at Alton, Staffordshire and they had one child, Rohese de Verdun who was born in 1203 or 1205 (died. Feb 1247).
If, indeed, Joanna was the result of a liaison between John and Clemence le Boteler (who would have been aged around 14-15 at the time), it would have been very difficult for the Le Boteler family to find a suitable husband for Clemence. Indeed some ten years pass before a marriage is arranged (by John and his family?) with a trustworthy English nobleman and property holder, Nicholas de Verdun. Leaving aside for the moment the possibility that Nicholas had fallen in love with the 27 year old Clemence and wanted to marry her, it would have been necessary for John to provide Clemence with some property of her own so that she became a more attractive prize for her husband to be.
The records now show a minor player, Philip Boteler, with seemingly little property, who comes into considerable property that is passed on through his daughter, Clemence. The CLR, 1245-51, p111 shows that although the properties of Wilsford and Stoke Farthing in Wiltshire first appear in de Verdun hands during their daughter Rohese's tenure of the family estates, they first came to the family as a result of Nicholas de Verdun's marriage to Clemence le Boteler. This is revealed in a plea of 1243 in which Rohese claimed to hold Stoke Farthing as the heir of Philip Boteler, the father of the said Clemence. [CRR, vol. 17, no 1462].
In 1228, it appears that this same Clemence and her husband Nicholas were chosen to receive custody of Joanna and Llywelyn's daughter Susanna (aged about 14?). The purpose for the placement (apart from housing a hostage), seems to be for the child to be brought up in a safe and secure environment with the opportunity for a better education. Of course, would this Clemence be the mother of Joanna, she would also be the grandmother of Susanna, though there is no reason to believe that the young Joanna knew, at this time, that there was a family relationship, if the truth were being kept from her. The custodial grant was by King Henry III, half-brother to Joanna and half-uncle to Susanna, yet the decree called Susanna, Henry's ‘niece’ and Joanna, Henry's ‘sister’.’
A question now poses itself. If Joanna was the daughter of Clemence le Boteler, from, apparently an English household, how do we explain what Joanna was doing in France when King John sent for her in 1203? One possible answer is that Clemence’s father, Philip le Boteler was French, rather than English. It was quite common at the time for people to hold properties on both sides of the Channel. This may also explain why he named his daughter ‘Clemence’, a name more common in French families than in English families during this period.
3 Clemence Pinel
The only publication where I have encountered a reference to Clemence Pinel – wife of Henry Pinel (apart from Charles Cawley in Wikipedia) is in Alison Weir’s ‘England’s Royal Families: The complete Genealogy (London, 1989).’ This publication is noted by one genealogist as ‘not very fully annotated.’ My own trawl through the genealogy forums found scant reference to the Pinel family, including Clemence’s husband Henry Pinel. Several entries suggest that Joanna was the daughter of Henry Pinel and his wife Clemence, but no sources, capable of being checked, are offered. I am therefore inclined to discount this lady from further investigation. I could be very wrong!!!!
4 Clemence de Fougers
Clemence de Fougers was the sister of Richard de Hommet, Constable of Normandy, and Geoffrey de Fougeres. Her father was William du Fougers. We have no date of birth (or death) of Clemence, but she was first married before 1200 (no date available) to Alan de Dinan, and was prominent enough to marry in October 1200, as her next husband, Ranulph de Blundeville, Earl of Chester and Vicomte d'Avranches, recently divorced (marriage annulled?) from Constance of Brittany.
In 1189, aged seventeen, Ranulph had been married to Constance of Brittany the widow of Henry 11’s son Geoffrey, and the mother of Arthur of Brittany with whom King John contested the succession. Henry did not trust the Countess and wanted her married to a magnate he could trust. The marriage gave Ranulph control of the earldom of Richmond and the duchy of Brittany, but it was not a success (see subject 6. below). The couple had no issue and they separated. It was rumoured that Earl Ranulph divorced Constance for having had an affair with King John!
Given that Clemence de Fougers was daughter and sister of Constables of Normandy, It is thought likely that John, Count of Mortain, in Normandy, knew of her [and perhaps *knew* her, prior to her marriage to Ranulph]. A close connection to John might explain what would seem a very advantageous second marriage for Clemence to Ranulph.
Ranulph, 6th Earl of Chester however, was a powerful baron and it beggars belief, at least for me, that he would have accepted a marriage to a woman who had had a known affair and a subsequent child by John, Count of Mortain some ten years previously. Particularly given the rumours surrounding a possible affair between John and his first wife Constance!
Whether John did have an affair (and a child) with this ‘Clemence’, for whom he arranged an advantageous marriage, who can know?? It all seems a bit tenuous to me!
5 Constance, Duchess of Brittany
Constance was born on the 12th June 1161 in Brittany and was married to (1) Geoffrey Plantagenet in 1181. Geoffrey was killed in a riding accident in 1186 and Constance married (2) Ranulph de Blundeville, 4th Earl of Chester, on 3rd February 1188, in a marriage arranged by King Henry 11. This marriage deteriorated and Ranulph imprisoned Constance in 1196. Rebellions were sparked across Brittany on her behalf and Ranulph released her in 1198. Back in Brittany, Constance had her marriage annulled and later in 1198, she took Guy de Tours as her ‘second’ husband.
Constance died aged 40, (possibly of leprosy, possibly after giving birth to twin girls) on 5th September 1201 at Nantes
The theory that Constance had an affair with John after the death of Geoffrey and before John’s marriage to Isabella of Gloucester in 1189, and that she was mother to Joanna is very contentious and has provoked much discussion within genealogical circles.
One comment from a genealogist states that ‘the journal ‘The Plantagenet Connection’ has published an ahnentafel of Elizabeth Plantagenet, wife of Henry V11, which gives Joanna’s mother’s name as Constance (perhaps misnamed Clemence?), Duchess of Brittany. This is the Constance who was John’s sister-in-law! Considering the well-known animosity between John and Constance and her own attempts to press her son Arthur’s interests as far as the throne of England was concerned (and we all know how disastrously that turned out!), I really find the proposed relationship a little hard to swallow. The Constance that history portrays does not strike me as on whom John could easily coerce into bed.’
Again on the subject of Constance, John Parsons, an eminent historian/genealogist writes:
‘A theory that would identify Joanna’s mother as Constance fails to take into account a very critical point in canon law. By merely having sex with John, let alone bearing him a child, Constance would have established a first-degree relationship of affinity with all of John’s siblings –– including John’s brother Geoffrey. Even though this was not a consanguineous relationship but one of affinity, any first-degree relationship would have rendered matrimony between Constance and any of John’s brothers impossible without a dispensation –– which given the party’s rank would have had to come from the pope himself. That would mean that some trace of the matter must surely have come down to us, whether it involved the request for it, the deliberations, or the actual dispensation itself. As far as I am aware, nothing of the kind exists.’
My own opinion for what it’s worth, is that had Constance been the mother of Joanna she would surely have brought her up in her household and her name would be as well known as Constance’s other children by Geoffrey (Eleanor, Fair Maid of Brittany, Matilda/Maud of Brittany and Arthur).
6 Agatha de Ferrers
Agatha was born about 1168 in Chartley Castle, Staffordshire. It is well known that she was a mistress of John and several family trees give her, though unmarried, as the mother of Joanna. Most genealogists however are of the opinion that it is only supposition that she is Joanna’s mother as no proof or records exist to demonstrate this.
One source frequently given is Sir William Dugdale, in the Baronage of England (1675-6). He states his source to be Dr David Howell’s ‘History of Wales’ (1584). Powell’s work is an enlarged edition of H Lloyd’s translation of ‘The Historie of Cambria’ by the 12th century Saint Caradoc of Llancarfan. Another source, ‘Magna Carta Barons’ by Charles Browning, copyright 1969 also names Agatha de Ferrers, daughter of Robert de Ferrers, fourth Earl of derby, as Joanna’s mother.
Although she cannot be entirely dismissed as a candidate for mother of Joanna, surely there would be some trace of her in a chronicle or other historic reference, if she had indeed been the mother of the wife of the Prince of North Wales.
I can find no record of Agatha having ever married and it is possible that she and John had a long standing relationship. The date of her death is unknown.
Conclusion
So! Who is it to be? As previously stated, the only reference we have in the records to the name of Joanna’s mother is an entry in the Tewkesbury annals which pertains to Joanna’s mother as “Queen Clemencie!” It reads in part:
Obiit domina Johanna domina Wallia, uxor Lewelini filia Regis Johannis et regina Clemencie, iii. Kal. Aprilis.”
“(Died lady Joanna, lady of Wales, wife of Llywelyn, daughter of King John and Queen Clementia, 3 Kal. April.”
Reference: Henry Richard Luard, Annales Monastici, 1 (1864): 101.
In this case the monk was evidently indulging in medieval legalism. Before her death, Joanna had been legitimised by the Pope. On the basis of that legitimisation, the Tewksbury monk evidently took it upon himself to elevate Joanna’s mother to the status of Queen, as if her mother had been King John’s wife! It is a fact however, that King John and Clemence were never married. By referring to Joanna’s mother as “Queen” Clementia, the monk who recorded Joanna’s death appeared to be showing his extreme respect for Joanna, but not attempting to alter the true facts.
Some Latinists have queried the meaning of this entry in the records. One has noted that ‘the use of the word ‘regina’ here could be an early example of the use of the word ‘queen’ (nowadays spelt ‘quean’) to indicate a woman of low degree, a loose woman, however you choose to render it most politely. This might have been an appropriate title for a mistress.’ Hmmmmm!
We will almost certainly never know for sure who was Joanna’s mother. My own feelings, following my research of the records and the genealogical tables, lean towards accepting that Joanna’s mother was named Clemence as written by the Tewksbury monk and, from the evidence available that Joanna’s daughter Susanna was handed over to the care of Nicholas de Verdun and his wife Clemence by Henry 111, that Clemence de Verdun (nee. Boteler) was Joanna’s mother.
I hope that Susanna was happy in the house of her maternal grandmother Clemence!
Well. What do you think??
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