It is a snowy, bitterly-cold day, and this seems like a good time to do some blogging before I have to get back to the siege of Acre, where the city has finally fallen to the crusaders. It is a relief to be able to use that term. It was not known during the MA; they called it “taking the cross” or “pilgrimage,” the latter term certainly at odds with the modern understanding of pilgrimages! But as I discovered when I sought to avoid it in dialogue, it is such a convenient shorthand, much more concise than “taking the cross.”
My blog topics seem to range all over the place, though I prefer the term “eclectic” rather than “scattershot” or “haphazard.” Today I thought that I’d actually talk about
my new book for a change. More specifically, Richard Coeur de Lion, for while he is
not the only character, he does tend to dominate whenever he is on center stage—typical Angevin.
I’ll start by admitting that Richard was never one of my favorite kings. I did not do much research about him for Here Be Dragons as he was a very minor character. The impression I had was of a man who was arrogant, ruthless, a first-rate soldier and battle commander, an ungrateful son, and a neglectful king, and that is the Richard who makes a brief appearance in Dragons. It was not until I began to do some serious research for Time and Chance and then Devil’s Brood and now Lionheart that a different Richard began to emerge.
In some ways, this Richard conformed to my earlier conception of the man. He was indeed hot-tempered and arrogant and could be utterly ruthless. He was so astonishingly reckless that it is almost miraculous he managed to live to be forty-two. And he was, plain and simple, a military genius.
What else was he? Well, I no longer agree with the infamous verdict of the 19th century historian, William Stubbs, that he was “a bad son, a bad husband, a bad king.” I think he can fairly be acquitted of two of those three damning charges. Although Henry II remains one of my favorite historical figures, I think Richard and Geoffrey had very legitimate grievances and I place much of the blame for their estrangement at Henry’s door. He played fast and loose with two-thirds of Geoffrey and Constance’s rightful inheritance and never understood why they resented his machinations and broken promises. And he made several dreadful mistakes with Richard—trying to take Aquitaine away from him and then using the crown as bait, refusing to confirm Richard’s rightful status as his heir and attempting to blackmail him into obedience. His worst failings as a father—even more so than his blatant favoritism—were his attempts to play one son off against another, as when he used Geoffrey to bring Richard to heel, and was then shocked that an embittered and disillusioned Geoffrey would look to the French court for aid. Sadly, he did not learn from this mistake, either, for he then sought to manipulate Richard by making him fear that John might be chosen if he did not surrender Aquitaine. I bled for Henry, dying betrayed and brokenhearted at Chinon, but he brought so much of that grief upon himself.
We had an interesting discussion recently on my Facebook page about going back in time and the ethics of changing what had already occurred. Well, I would be seriously tempted to get Henry to abandon the toxic advice he’d supposedly gotten from his mother about the best way to handle men. According to a contemporary writer, Walter Mapp, she taught him to “keep in suspense those who were high in hope,” for “An untamed hawk, when raw flesh is often offered to it, and then withdrawn or hidden from it, becometh more greedy and is more ready to obey and to remain.” We cannot know if this is actually true, of course. But Henry does seem to have applied the training of his hawks to his sons, too, and the consequences were disastrous.
Nor was Richard a bad king. Historians today give him much higher marks than the Victorians did. There is an excellent discussion of how Richard’s reputation has ebbed and flowed over the centuries in The Reign of Richard Lionheart by Ralph Turner and Richard Heiser, called “Richard in Retrospect.” They astutely state that “Richard’s reputation is tied directly to the value structures of the historians writing about him” and point out how anachronistic it is to fault him for spending so little time in England. It was only part of the Angevin “empire,” but Victorian historians seemed unable to grasp this concept. Turner and Heiser also remind us that warfare was a medieval king’s vocation and Richard was caught up in a bitter war with the French king, Philippe. The irony is that the very aspects of his reign that some historians have criticized—his participation in the Third Crusade and his military successes—were what his subjects most admired. By the standards of his time, he was a successful king, and historians now take that into consideration in passing judgment upon him.
So…was he a bad husband, though? It is difficult not to conclude that he was. What I find most interesting about their marriage is that he went to great lengths to take Berengaria with him on crusade, an experience that must have been shocking for a young woman of sheltered upbringing, but then spent little time with her during the last five years of his life, even though he still lacked an “heir of the body.” So what caused this change and their apparent estrangement? I have my own ideas about the reasons, but you’ll have to wait to read about them in Lionheart J
What surprised me the most about the Richard that my research revealed? I had not realized that his health was so uncertain. He apparently suffered from an ailment that may have been chronic malaria and nearly died twice in the Holy Land from illnesses. Once I learned that he was so often ill, it makes his battlefield exploits all the more remarkable. Much of what he accomplished seems to have been done by sheer force of will; for example, after nearly dying of the mystery malady “Arnaldia” at the siege of Acre, he had himself carried out to the front lines on a “silken quilt” so that he could oversee the assault and shoot his crossbow at the enemy garrison up on the city walls.
I was very surprised to discover that this man, almost insanely reckless with his own safety, was very cautious when it came to the lives of his men. A fascinating paradox there, but one which goes far toward explaining why he was loved by his soldiers, who seemed willing to “wade in blood to the pillars of Hercules if he so desired,” according to the chronicler Richard of Devizes. He also showed a strong sense of responsibility toward the men under his command. The chroniclers often mention how he took measures to see to their safety and comfort, and once when his friends tried to convince him not to go to the rescue of knights greatly outnumbered by their Saracen foes, he responded, “I sent those men there. If they die without me, may I never again be called a king.” He then spurred his stallion into the fray and once again won against all odds—as he did time and time again until an April evening before the walls of Chalus.
I’d known that Richard, like all of Henry and Eleanor’s sons, was well educated, able to crack jokes in Latin, and a poet in two languages, French and the lenga romana of Aquitaine, what we know as Occitan. Almost by accident, I discovered just how well- read he really was. One of the chroniclers reported that when his friends had chided him for taking such risks with his life, he’d laughed and jested about changing his nature with a pitchfork. I thought this was interesting, giving us a glimpse of his personality. But recently I happened upon a proverb from Horace, “You may drive nature out with a pitchfork but it will still return.” I admit it, I was impressed.
Richard’s sardonic sense of humor was another surprise. I knew about his quip when he was taken to task for his exorbitant efforts to raise money for the crusade, that he’d have sold London if he could find a buyer. And I knew, too, about his celebrated response to the preacher who’d dared to scold him for his three “daughters,” Pride, Avarice and Sensuality; he quickly replied that he’d given his “daughters’ away in marriage, Pride to the Templars, Avarice to the Cistercians, and Sensuality to the Benedictines. Baha al-Din, one of Saladin’s chroniclers, reported that he habitually employed a half-joking conversational style, so it wasn’t always easy to tell if he was serious or not. He clearly inherited his father’s flair for sarcasm. He was a bitter foe of Philippe’s cousin, the Bishop of Beauvais, a prelate better known for his prowess on the battlefield than for his preaching. After the bishop had been captured by Richard, the Pope rebuked him for imprisoning a “son of the Church.” Richard reputedly sent the Pope the bishop’s bloodied mail hauberk, with the comment, “Here is your son’s shirt.”
He had good reason for loathing Beauvais, who had convinced the Holy Roman Emperor, Heinrich VI, that Richard should be treated harshly in order to break his spirit. This surprised me, too–that for part of his captivity in Germany, he was actually kept in shackles, or as he himself later put it, “loaded down with chains so heavy that a horse would have struggled to move.” German and English chroniclers and a letter by Peter of Blois confirm that he was indeed treated in a very unkingly manner while kept at Trifels Castle. Perhaps that shouldn’t have surprised me so much, for Heinrich displayed a capacity for cruelty that I’ve rarely encountered in my readings about the MA. Both Richard and Philippe were capable of being quite merciless upon occasion, but neither man could begin to compete with Heinrich in that dubious department. When he seized power in Sicily, he dealt savagely with the Sicilians, had the former king, a child of four, taken from his mother and sent to captivity in Germany where he died soon afterward; one report said the little boy was castrated and blinded. Such was his reputation that the Duke of Austria, Richard’s initial captor, handed him over to Heinrich only “on condition he would suffer no harm to his body.”
What else surprised me about Richard? That his greatest fame was as a crusader and yet he showed himself to be quite interested in Saracen culture. In the words of Baha al-Din, “He had made friends with several of the elite mamlukes and had knighted some of them,” and he was willing to deal with the Muslims as he would have dealt with Christian foes, via negotiation and even a marital alliance. That some of the more unlikely legends about him turned out to be true. That notwithstanding my favorite film, The Lion in Winter, there is no real evidence that he preferred men to women as sexual partners and some evidence to the contrary. That he may have had a second son. Above all, that the more I learned about this man of so many contradictions, the more I could see him as the son most like Henry, surely the ultimate irony.
Well, those are my thoughts about Coeur de Lion. Here is my question of the day. Who would you choose as your favorite ruler? And your least-favorite? You are not restricted to the MA, and we are not necessarily talking about “great” kings or queens, though you can certainly add them to the list. For me, it would be a dead-heat between Henry II and Llywelyn Fawr, with Charles II coming in third, and then the Yorkist kings, Edward IV and Richard III, Eleanor of Aquitaine, Llywelyn ap Gruffydd, Elizabeth Tudor, and Owain Glyn Dwr, not necessarily in that order.
Lastly, I am delighted to be able to post here a fascinating article by Malcolm Craig, Proving Matilda, in which he sets forth his evidence for the existence of a second daughter for Geoffrey and Constance. Thank you so much for agreeing to share this with us, Malcolm.
January 31, 2010
“So what caused this change and their apparent estrangement? I have my own ideas about the reasons, but you’ll have to wait to read about them in Lionheart”
Ahhh! Sharon, that’s like sing-songing “I know something you don’t know!” and then not saying what it is! LOL. Ah well, it will make it that much more satisfying when we actually get to read Lionheart, all these tantalizing little tidbits. 🙂
It’s interesting to me that he may be considered a bad husband. Maybe a woman in the MA would have preferred a husband who left her alone, especially if she was married for political purposes and her wishes weren’t taken into account, as seemed so often the case. Maybe being a bad or a good husband depends on one’s perspective. Maybe Berengaria was a girl who always wanted her man around, though, so would consider him a bad husband. I don’t really know much about her, so I’m just babbling now.
While I’m thinking of it, your comment about the chronicler Richard of Devizes reminds me that I found a Kindle edition of his chronicle for 99 cents, for anyone who has a Kindle, iPod touch, or Kindle for PC and is interested. It appears thus far to be unabridged.
It’s also interesting that Richard was interested in Saracen culture. Do you think he saw them as projects to convert and so made an attempt to learn about their culture to help him toward that end, or did he maybe see some of them as noble and good with their own religion? Was his interest seen as weird by his contemporaries?
My favorite rulers were Alfred the Great, because he wanted his people to be educated. Also Llywelyn Fawr, who I had never heard of until I read your Welsh trilogy and I now think he is a fascinating character. Henry II and Eleanor of Aquitaine because they had such an interesting and dysfunctional dynasty. And Elizabeth I, who is the only Tudor that I think is really interesting.
Sorry for writing a blog on your blog. 😐 Have a good day! Stay warm!
Anxiously awaiting the completion of Lionheart!
My favorites would be Henry II and Edward IV, although I read a book recently about William the Conqueror, and I have to say that if it weren’t for him, none of the rest could have followed!
Favorites are Elizabeth Tudor and Henry II, in that order. I have you to thank for Henry II being a favorite! While I love all English history, the Tudor era has always been my favorite. Reading Time & Chance really brought Henry to life for me and I’ve since read quite a bit more about him. No one will ever replace Elizabeth as my favorite but Henry proved to be a serious contender for second place (originally held by Richard III).
Will we be seeing any Ranulf, Rhiannon or Morgan in Lionheart, Sharon?
My favorites are Edward IV, Richard III, Edward III, Henry II and Elizabeth I. I said this on your facebook, but Edward has such a personality- while reading Sunne, every part with Edward in it just lit up my day. The Llywelyns are pretty awesome as well though…
Wow! Can’t wait to read more about Richard! The Angevins are an absolutely fascinating bunch — so full of contradictions — and I think you may be right that Richard was the son most like his father, irony of all ironies. I am currently rereading Time and Chance and enjoying it as much the second time around as the first. (I wanted to read it again after reading Ariana Franklin’s Grave Goods set during the latter part of Henry’s reign). Thanks so much for giving me such long hours of entertainment and I’m waiting anxiously for Lionheart.
I can hardly wait for the book!
As for suggestions/favorite monarchs: Scottish politics was even murkier than English, and I’d love to see a series on Scotland prior and up through the Norman Conquest. Kenneth MacAlpin, the conquest of the Picts, the Norse battles, MACBETH, Edgar the Atheling, Princess Margaret and husband Malcolm III.
After reading your Angevin trilogy I fell absolutely in love with Henry II, even with all his faults and the way he badly treated some of the people around him. You made him such a well rounded person, I felt as though I really knew him. I would say thay Henry II is my favourite ruler but add the condition that I may change my mind in the future after reading Lionheart. I am also very partial to Richard III- again only after reading your book.
Just had another thought- does William Marshall count as a ruler as he was the regent during the early years of the reign of Henry III? If so, he is my favourite. What an amazing man as portrayed by Elizabeth Chadwick in her 2 novels.
Favorites would definitely include Llywelyn Fawr, Llywelyn ap Gruffydd, and Owain Glyn Dwr. Least favorite would be the one many Welshmen/Welshwomen, and people of Welsh descent would hate. Edward I.
OK, now I’m worried you’re actually going to make me like Richard — I’m quite happy right now, disliking him! Ah well, such is life — I’m sure it will be worth it!
I’ve got to go w/ Richard III as my favorite — I’ve been fascinated w/ him ever since I started reading about him. Sunne was a huge part of that, but PMK’s biography subsequently sealed the deal. Llywellyn Fawr, Elizabeth I and Harold are up there too. And John fascinates me too, although I wouldn’t go so far as to put him in a favorite category. I don’t actually know too much about anyone after the Tudors.
Wonderful blog! And I loved “Proving Matilda”!
Well, I already wrote of my favorite British Rulers on your Facebook page: England: Eleanor of Aquitaine, Empress Matilda, John, Richard III and Elizabeth I. Wales: Owain Gwynedd, Llewellyn Fawr, Davydd (he tried so hard). Scotland: Robert the Bruce. Not only did he try so hard, he also succeeded.
I’ll note you didn’t say ‘British’ Rulers here, so I’ll add a few non-British here: David and Solomon, Josiah (of Judah) (all of the three above are my ancestors, according to family tradition), Alexander of Macedon, Genghis Khan, Ögedei Khan, and Baldwin IV the leper of Jerusalem. That’s just a short list, of course, but I don’t have all day.
Lastly, Sharon, I’ll repeat my request for some information regarding Petronilla, Eleanor’s sister, her life, and especially what really happened with her and Raoul.
King Arthur, Then Baldwin of Jerusalem! Mebes The present (Prince william)…Why Not……Thanks Again Sharon.
I am curious about how you will treat the slaughter of the prisoners after the Siege of Acre. All references I’ve seen (admittedly few) say this was at Richard’s doing. Do you have a more positive viewpoint on this? Are you going to deal with it in your book?
My favorite ruler would definitely be Llywelyn Fawr. He was fair and tolerant and brilliant. Quick question: How far apart is French from the Middle Ages to modern French? Do you speak French and do your research from French sources?
Thanks! I love your posts and can’t wait to read more about Richard!
Hi, Lesley. Of course I am going to deal with it; how could I not? And I think it is impossible to have a “positive” viewpoint about it; the most that can be said is that they saw it as a military decision. Saladin had not paid the ransom and the crusaders were getting ready to march down the coast toward Jaffa and they didn’t want to leave so many Saracen soldiers behind, not having enough men to guard them. While Richard has, quite understandably, been severely criticized by modern historians, the act raised few eyebrows in his own time. (Which is sad in and of itself) He certainly saw it as justified under the circumstances, to judge by his own letter in which he mentions it quite matter-of-factly. As did his fellow crusaders; while he was the man “in charge” by that time, the French and others “signed off” on it, too. But I have great sympathy for the Acre garrison; they surrendered upon the understanding that their lives would be spared, only to find themselves caught up in a power play between Richard and Saladin. BTW, you will occasionally read that women and children were slain, too. But I have spent over two years researching this, and have not found a single contemporary chronicle that says this. To the contrary, it seems clear in context that the prisoners slain were the garrison, except for the emirs who were spared because they could pay a ransom. What I found baffling and infuriating was that some reputable historians report the families were slain, too, but not a single one of them cites a source for that. Runciman, for example; I find such sloppiness inexcusable in a reputable historian like that, for people would naturally take his word for what happened. To me, this was very important to get this right, and I hate to think of how much time and effort I’ve put into this one question–I might be 3/4 done with Lionheart instead of at the halfway point if I hadn’t had to try to hunt down the source for this! One of the great challenges of writing about the MA is not to let my own views color the narrative. This is one reason why I’ve been highly recommendting the book By Sword and Fire, which provides an excellent (if gory) assessment of medieval warfare and shows that the so-called code of chivalry did not ease the suffering for those not covered by the code.
Hi, me again. Koby, I’d tried to answer you earlier today, only to have my response disappear in a puff of cyberspace smoke (bad Melusine) But I am going to try again. You are likely to be the only one to add Genghis Khan to a favorites list! As for Petronilla, I am afraid I can’t tell you much. While I was writing Saints, I was unable to find out her death date, despite my best efforts; I even wrote to Marion Meade, who had written a lyrical biography of Eleanor, and she hadn’t come across it either. So I mentioned it in my AN and moved on to the next book. While researching Chance, though, I came across a French source that said she died before Raoul, and I mention that in Chance’s AN. In the years since, I have not encountered any other information about Petronilla, but I have no reason to doubt the French source, which was their equivalent of the British National Biography series. Sorry I can’t be more helpful. Their children had very sad lives, by the way. Their son died young, from leprosy. Their eldest daughter was apparently barren and was accused of adultery by her husband, the Count of Flanders, although there was some suspicion that this was a ploy for him to get hold of Vermandois, for she was compelled to turn it over to him. The younger daughter didn’t have such dramatic marital woes, but if my memory serves, there was turmoil in her life, too, and I do not believe she had children, either.
Hi Sharon,
It warms my heart to hear you speak so well of Richard. He is my favorite king in the Angevin or any era. Perhaps someday you will come to like Philippe Auguste as well…
Today Llywelyn Fawr’s beloved wife and consort, Joanna/Siwan, died–on Candlemas, February 2, 1237. She was buried at Llanfaes, where Llywelyn established a friary in her honor, a remarkable tribute. The only one that comes close is Edward I’s Eleanor Crosses to mark the places where his wife’s body rested on her way south.
I believe today was also the Battle of Mortimer’s Cross…
Thanks a lot, Sharon. And why shouldn’t I pick Genghis Khan? He was a great ruler.
Also, both Sharon and Kate have already noted the events of today, which makes me kind of obsolete… oh well, the more the merrier.
I would have to echo the choice of Alfred – more or less the founder of the English kingdom, he was responsible for such a dramatic renaissance of culture and education in the otherwise, so-called, “Dark Ages” while also solidifying the security and unity of his people. It’s too bad his Saxon successors couldn’t consolidate his accomplishments more succesfully against the Vikings. My close second choice is Elizabeth I, for all the obvious reasons, plus my home state is named for her and it (and the U.S. as a whole) largely owe their existence to her for putting England in a position to explore and colonize the New World.
Sharon, it was interesting to see you list Charles II as one of your favorites. Do you have any interest in writing about the Civil War and Restoration periods? I think you’d do a fantastic job and hope your publishers allow you to push your boundaries later or earlier in history, if you so chose. I feel I don’t know as much as I should about that period, but I know if you cover it, that will be my greatest motivation to learn more.
Change of subject, but I was also hoping to get everyone’s thoughts on the latest twists and turns in the e-books, iPad, Kindle, etc. developments, since it’s such big news right now. I think e-books could be a good thing for historical fiction if they become more popular – easy linking to sources for interested readers, multimedia, etc. What I hope is that those things supplement, but don’t replace, the pure interactive experience of reading the written word and working with the author’s creation to conjure the setting and characters’ personalities in your own heart and mind. I would not want our novels to start to look more and more like movies. Also, as an aspiring historical novelist myself, I wonder if e-books will make it easier for new authors to “publish” but harder to make a living from it.
I am in no way an expert, but since I just finished reading “The Heretic Queen,” by Michelle Moran and I thought I would put a plug in for Ramesses II-The Great Pharoh of Egypt. Sharon did mention that it didn’t have to be M.A, so I thought I would throw out a different ruler from the others. I have become completely facinated with the time and culture of Ancient Egypt. It is a little ironic that Europeans tended to be more backwards than the Egyptians. For example, the Egyptians had toilets and placed an emphasis on hygiene.
I’m not sure but I may be stealing some of Sharon’s thunder here as I’m sure she would like to post on the following and get her fans to contribute to this really good cause.
Some of you might have heard of Garth Celyn at Aber in Gwynedd. Certainly those of you who have read Sharon’s Welsh trilogy and also Edith Pargetter’s books.
At the end of the twelfth century, Llywelyn ab Iorwerth, (Llywelyn the Great), Prince of Wales, utilized the promontory to build a royal home, known as Ty Hir, (the Long House). To the east was the newly endowed Cistercian Monastery of Aberconwy; to the west the cathedral city of Bangor. Between Garth Celyn and the shore, the fertile farmland provided food for the royal family and the members of the court.
In 1211 King John of England brought an army across the river Conwy, and occupied the royal home for a brief period; his troops went on to burn Bangor. Llywelyn’s wife, John’s daughter Joanna (Siwan), negotiated between the two men, and John withdrew.
Joanna died at Garth Celyn in 1237 and was buried at Llanfaes just across the Menai Straits; Dafydd ap Llywelyn died there in 1246; Eleanor de Montfort, Lady of Wales, wife of Llywelyn ap Gruffudd, died there on 19 June 1282, giving birth to a baby, Gwenllian of Wales.
The house has been owned by the Gibson family since 1988 and while they continue to live there, the place will be safe from developers, but its long-term future needs to be secured. Kathryn Gibson has set up a fund designed to do just this. She wants Garth Celyn to be preserved as a permanent memorial to the Princes of Wales and as a Centre for the Interpretation of Welsh History.
Kathryn now has a website at http://www.garthcelyn.com, as a means of spreading the word on the Internet. It is well worth a visit to learn more and, if you value preserving a place that has been written out of history up until now, just click on the ‘Donate’ button. I know that with disasters like the Haiti earthquake and others, there might be a bit of ‘donation overload,’ but this request is very worth while for all history lovers. Please consider donating something, anything, to the fund. Thank you.
P.S. There is also a very good article on Garth Celyn on Jules Frusher’s latest blog: http://despenser.blogspot.com/
Here Here, Matt……Sharons Battle-Descriptions!! Edge -Hill ?? Etc Delightful,… Cromwell ,….Gets All The Blame?? When All he Really Wanted was Too Move Too Virginia?…..Too Farm in Peace. “Leadership Thrust Upon Him -Indeed.
These posts are so interesting – almost as detailed as the novels themselves.
Which is my favorite ruler? Not sure I know – on discovering your books I discovered rulers I’d never heard of – such as Llewellyn Fawr. I barely knew of King Stephen – and that only from the Bro. Cadfael books. and I was completely confused between”Maud” and “Matilda” until “When Christs and his Saints Slept.”
Since childhood I’ve loved Elizabeth I, and have been a fierce adherent. Knew little about Eleanor of Aquitaine, but am now on binge of reading even more about her.
And outside England – I find Hatshepsut, “the female Pharoah,” utterly fascinating-with traits in common with Elizabeth (“heart of a king”).
I may just change my opinion of Richard III when I read “Sunne in Splendor,” too. Which I’m sure I will, altho’ I had avoided it (it’s about Richard III! why would I want to spend 400 pp with him?).
“
Hi Cheryl, do read ‘Sunne’. I have become such a fan of Richard that I have a print of his portrait on my bedside table. On my bedroom walls I have framed prints of his battle standard and other drawings. I also tell everyone to never buy me red roses. The novel had such a big effect on me.
Matt, an interesting twist in the e-book saga. Amazon has pulled all of Macmillan’s books from their site in a dispute over the pricing of Kindle books. Not only did they remove the Kindle editions, but the hardback and paperbacks, too, so that they cannot be purchased from Amazon now, have to be ordered from 3rd party sellers. This affects four of my books, Sunne and the Welsh trilogy. It was an astonishingly blatant display of corporate muscle to extend the “ban” beyond the books in dispute, the Kindle editions. The reponse wa so uniformly negative that Amazon supposedly backed down and agreed to restore Macmillan books to their site. But as of late Tuesday night, they have not done it yet. The writers being hurt the most are those with new books coming out, for that is when sales are strongest. I am a huge fan of Dana Stabenow’s wonderful mystery series set in her native Alaska. She has a new Kate Shugak novel, A Night Too Dark, coming out in February 16th, and as far as she knows, all of her readers who bought the book in advance are in limbo, having no way of knowing when they’ll be able to get the book. If anyone is interested, I can provide a few links about this story, including speculation about some of the issues you touched upon, Matt.
Cheryl – like you, I am utterly fascinated with Hatshepsut and I love your comparison with Elizabeth I, another woman who’s fascinated me since my early teens. Have you read Canadian author Pauline Gedge’s novel about this remarkable female pharao? It is called “Child of the Morning” and I can’t recommend it strongly enough. I teach history at high school, and I am thrilled whenever I come across women who break all the conventions of their time and leap out of the pages of history books demanding the attention they so richly deserve. Whenever possible, I try to direct my students’ attention towards women like Hatshepsut, Eleanor and Elizabeth. After reading Sharon’s wonderful novels, I have also developed a tendency to direct their attention towards Wales…
Kristine-
Funny you should recommend Pauline Gedge’s novel, as Michelle Moran recommeded as well! They are apparently re-releasing her novels in April! That is, if Amazon doesn’t have beef with them as well!
Продолжение данного поста будет?
Don’t forget Asia in search of women ahead of their time. There was a female “Emperor” in China during the Tang Dynasty. The one historical novel in English that I’ve found is called “Lady Wu” by Lin Yutang (Lin is the author’s last name). Antonia Fraser has written a non-fiction book entitled “Warrior Queens” that covers strong female rulers from all parts of the world.
Both Llywelyns are my favourite, being Welsh!
and I will never forgive Edward 1st for what he did to Wales!!
Henry 11 makes Henry V111 look uninteresting !!!
Brenna – from what I could see at amazon.co.uk, it looks as if they are re-releasing “Child of the Morning” with a foreword written by Michelle Moran. It is available for pre-order and I might just get a copy as my old one is in Norwegian. I haven’t yet read anything by Michelle Moran. I have picked up “The Heretic Queen” but it is still in my TBR pile. Looking forward to reading it…
May – thanks for recommending”Lady Wu”. I know a little bit about this female ruler in ancient China, but not nearly enough. I feel that as far as China goes, I have barely scratched the surface.
If any of you know of other good historical novels about amazing women, I’d love to hear of them! I am partial to the middle ages, but Eleanor of Aquitaine outshines just about anyone else from this period. She’s a hard act to follow!
Yes, Sharon, Amazon’s heavy-handed power play and confusing response to the scorn it drew remind me of some of the feudal drama among characters in your books! Maybe business schools need to include some medieval case studies in their coursework!
Cheryl, I happen to think Sunne in Splendor is Sharon Penman’s very best book. I’ve read them all–I think. It was such a page turner that I stayed up all night reading. When my husband came out and saw me reading at 5:30 AM I thought he was just getting up to go to the bathroom, but he was getting up for work. I fell in love with the Richard character and as always, believe everything Ms. Penman writes as gospel–so I’m very glad she writes notes in the back explaining who the fictional characters are, otherwise I’d be talking to my colleagues (I teach at a college) about characters like Ranulf and looking like a fool. She makes Richard into the hero that I’m sure he was, besides, even if he did take those boys down–now this is going to sound completely soulless–but even if he did it, back then if you didn’t kill all the living heirs of your rivals, you would be made to pay in a big way! Look at how things turned out for Simon de Montfort. (I hope I’m not giving away too much of the story for anyone).
Kristine: Oddly enough, I’ve tried 2 or 3 x to read “Child of the Morning,” and never finished it. I think the writing wasn’t very good – don’t remember. It has stayed in print a long time, though, so maybe it is just me. Or maybe the Norwegian translation is better?
Malena – I’ll take your rec of “Sunne” to heart.
Love your comment about taking everything in these novels “as gospel.” And yes, I keep having to remind myself that Ranulf is fictional, he’s so well-drawn he seems very real. Since finishing “Devil’s Brood,” I’ve pulled out some of my old medieval history books and looked up the descriptions of the period I’ve been astonished at how often a scene or dialogue in the novel follows closely on a recorded passage from a chronicler. In particular, many of the confrontations between Henry II and his rebellious sons are evidentlly recorded in good detail. That is partly why I’m looking for the other books – I don’t like historical fiction that takes too great liberties with known facts.
While we’re on the subject of great female rulers don’t forget Queen Boudicca.
Hi All, Koby, Davydd didn’t try hard. He just couldn’t stand it that Llewellyn bested him in everything except having children. He began that final war with Edward I because he couldn’t bear to wait so Llewellyn would be the leader and (if they won) have the right and responsbility to negotiate with the English for the good of Wales.
Davydd always wanted to be center stage and didn’t much care how he achieved his aims. Not that he planned very far ahead or considered consequences.
Dave–*facepalm* I can’t believe I forgot Boudicca! Thanks for the reminder. She, well, ruled. /lame joking. I do so love it when the Celts did what they could to tie a knot in the Romans’ knickers, though!
Matt–that’s an interesting question about the ease of getting published electronically. I think it may be easier. I have a couple friends on LiveJournal who got published on Kindle, but not in hard copy. I have no idea about the pay rate, though. But I agree with you that, while e-books have definite perks, I hope they never, ever replace real books. I can’t imagine a life without books.
Sorry, I should have been clearer. Gayle, I was talking about the first Davydd, Llewellyn and Joanna’s son, not Gruffuydd’s. I felt he tried really hard to keep his fathers’ dream alive – and quite possibly broke his heart trying.
Koby, that is so true. I always felt a great sympathy for Davydd, am so glad you share it. The sons of great men usually do not thrive in their shadows, but Davydd did his best under difficult circumstances, only to be defeated by what was most likely cancer. Seems so unfair even after so many centuries.
If I disappear from the radar screen for awhile, it may be because we have a genuine blizzard bearing down upon us tomorrow.
And here is a link to an excellent magazine about Wales, called Cambria. Their December issue had an interesting article about Llywelyn ap Gruffydd and Ellen de Montfort. http://www.cambriamagazine.com/
The two Llywelyns of Wales have been long time favorites from the years when I was researching for a book about the de Montforts. But I also have a particular regard for successful female rulers — Elizabeth I, Isabella of Castile, and Blanche of Castile. Blanche in particular intrigues me — here is a woman who was regent of France twice, in a country that prohibited women from royal inheritance, and did it so well that she not only kept France intact during her son’s majority and crusade, but actually strengthened it, so that hardly anybody could find anything to criticize about her — yet she is largely unknown.
Yet Blanche was the Mother-in-law from Hell, Arwen, treated her poor young daughter-in-law very badly. I will concede that she had great strength of will, and hers was not an easy situation, but she has never been one of my favorites. From all that I’ve read about her, she sounds quite unlikeable. IMHO, of course! Given your interest in female rulers, you will want to read the new book coming out by C. W. Gortner, author of The Last Queen, about the sister of Katherine of Aragon. His new one is about one of history’s most controversial queens, Catherine de Medici. I’d always had a very negative view of her, but Christopher makes her three-dimensional and also makes us appreciate the difficulties she faced. BTW, her son-in-law has always been my favorite French king, Henri–Paris is worth a Mass–Navarre. If only I had nine cat lives, I’d have liked to have written his story.
I have to share the admiration of many in the group for Henry II: a great man despite a few fatal flaws. In that same category: Edward I had the potential to be even greater if he had not sunk into his obsessions with conquest. At least no one could call him a bad husband! John too had the intelligence and wit to be a great king, but the wrong personality. A waste.
I agree with you, Blair. I think Henry II was a great king, too; his tragedy, of course, was that he was so flawed as a father and husband. John was really crippled by his insecurities, and I’ve come to believe that they doomed his kingship. Because he could not trust others, they felt they could not trust him, and this then fed into his paranoia, making him even more suspicious, etc. When I wrote Dragons, it was in no way meant to be a “whitewash” of John, or even a rehabilitation of his reputation. My aim was merely to restore his humanity, which I did by dramatizing those aspects of his nature which were commendable, such as his affection for his children and his illegitimate half-brothers; a psychiastrist might wonder if he was trying to recreate the family life he never had as a child. But I think I may have been too successful, for some of you seem fonder of John than he deserves 🙂 Of course, speaking strictly as a writer, I was quite fond of him myself; the flawed characters are always the most fun to write about, and John, bless him, had flaws beyond counting.
I wonder why Henry 2 nd, never went on Crusade?…….I believe , his wife Did?? Saladin would Have Had his Work cut Out-There?? what A difference A Generation Makes.
Hi Sharon,
Have you or your readers ever played the Dinner Party Game? It goes like this: if you could invite 12 people, living or dead, to your dinner party – who would you invite. It’s fascinating to hear the different choices people make. However, my dinners would consist of English Kings and Queens, of course. I could host a Plantagenet dinner, a Tudor dinner, a Stuart dinner. So it’s hard to name a favorite, but I think Richard III tops the list. Would so love to know what really happened during his short reign. And Henry VIII is a favorite and a least favorite at the same time for many reasons!
Good luck with the snow, Sharon. I think you and I will get about the same amount 6-14″ Though you might get a little more being further south than I. Does Cody like to play in the snow?
Iechyd da,
Dave
We are supposed to get about two feet, Dave….yikes. Yes, all the dogs I’ve ever had loved snow. My Norwegian elkhound used to like to sleep in it, staying true to her heritage! Cody loves it, too, and it actually gives him the traction he needs now because of his hind legs weakness. You stay safe and warm. Same for Brenna and Jenny and Ellie and all others in the path of the storm.
James, Henry was not keen on crusading. Too much of a pragmatist, I suspect. He had promised to go on crusade as part of the peace he made with the Church after Becket’s murder, but he managed to keep putting it off. When he was offered the crown of Jerusalem by th Patriarch, he said in effect, Thanks, but no thanks. Then he and Philippe, another reluctant crusader, were sandbagged into taking the cross by the Archbishop of Tyre, arriving with the dire word that Jerusalem had fallen to the “infidels.” Henry had been horrified when Richard was one of the first to take the cross, not wanting to see his heir going off to the bloody killing fields of the Holy Land. Would he have gone if his declining health and war with Philippe had not intervened? Probably, for the loss of Jerusalem put enormous pressure on all “good Christians” to sign on. But in this, Henry could not have been more unlike his son, for Richard was a passionate crusader and Henry was…not. He did provide large sums of money, though, to Outremer, and after Balian of Ibelin persuaded Saladin to let the trapped citizens of Jerusalem buy their lives, the money Henry had given was used to save thousands of the city’s poor. I think Henry would have been pleased by that. But his own realm mattered more to him than the Holy Land, however unpolitic or politically incorrect that was at the time.
Jane, sign me up if you ever figure out how to have a Plantagenet dinner party! But who’d keep the peace? You wouldn’t even have to add Edward I or the Yorkist kings to the list to liven things up. What could be more explosive than an Angevin dinner party—Henry, Eleanor, and the Devil’s Brood?
I can answer that question easily, Sharon: My Father’s side of the family at Pesach. My Grandmother, my father’s four brothers and sisters, and their children. There is so much quarreling and arguing, it’s insane. It’s also very funny, though.
I’d add Augustus to my favourite roulers. And Charlemagne – sure, he was quite nasty to the Saxons (though being stubborn, we still sing about Widukind in Lower Saxony where I live 😀 ) but he kept the realm together, told the Pope to stick to his own business, and brought the cultural life to new bloom.
Re. Heinrich VI – yeah, those German Heinrichs were quite a bunch of trouble. 😉 My personal favourites are Heinrich IV of Canossa fame, and Heinrich the Lion Duke of Saxony.
After spending the better part of my free time in 2008 reading about Julius Ceasar and then discovering Sharon’s books in 2009, I read every one of them, I have to say my favorite rulers are Julius Ceasar and Henry II in that order. I can’t wait to read Lionheart!
And Today, Empress Matilda – known to us better as Maude – was born.
Favourite rulers… I am really partial to Henry I, for some reason. Elizabeth I too. I enjoy reading about all the English kings as the history is so bloody, compared to the relatively tame rulers we had out of the house Habsburg! I have always been fond of Joseph II (Roman emperor, son of Maria Theresia, absolutist reformer) who tried so hard to modernize his domain – but who just did not GET it that his subjects did not share his passion for education, freedom of thoughts, and so on, and pefered being un-enlightened….
On a more global scale I am very interested in Ghengis Khan too. I think he suffers from a serious case of bad press in the Western world. Not to say he was a saint (but honestly, no king could be a saint!) but he was not the monster he was made out to be. It’s all a matter of persepctive….
James, Eleanor did go on a crusade, the first one, with her first husband, Louis of France. A wonderful depiction of her is in Judith Tarr’s Queen of Swords
Yes!Cindy, Sorry ?…….I was Thinking Why Her Husband, Never Ventured, TooThe Holy -Land (As in Henry2 nd), Valiant , Tenatious, the Greatest of His Time !
Hi, James. See my answer above as to why Henry II never went on crusade. Some of the chroniclers claimed that the real reason he met such a wretched death was because he’d never fulfilled his crusader’s vow; he (and the French king Philippe) were very much out of step with their times and their pragmatic realism adversely affected their reputations in the MA. Richard’s Gung-ho zeal was much admired by his contemporaries. As for me, I’m on Henry’s side in this ! (I even have a twinge or two of sympathy for Philippe, Christy)
Mentioned in Despatch;es?……..You Made My Day !Thank-you For The Expanation, ‘just A thought?.. Would General Allenby,…-Be Clased As A Crusader In The Taking Of jerusalem”(WW1)
Sharon-
I hope you’ve been able to dig yourself out somewhat, especially with another storm coming tomorrow. Ben and I are still trying to dig our cars out, the City of Wilmington does not believe in clearing it’s roads! Oh well, I was able to catch up on some much needed reading-I finished Michelle Moran’s “Cleopatra’s Daughter” and am almost finished with C.W. Gortner’s “Last Queen.” Once I finished C.D, all I could say was “wow” over and over again. Michelle is such an amazing writer; she leaves you with the feeling that you gained and lost a friend in one book. “The Last Queen” is shaping up to be the exact same way! Thanks again for the wonderful recommendations!
Good luck with Winter Storm # 2!
And today, William II ‘Longspee’ (Longsword), Williams’ son and Johns’ nephew died on crusade.
He was a minor character in Shadow, Koby, but I liked him a lot and missed him once he was gone.
Upthread you mentioned the date of Johanna’s death. One of my favorite discoveries when we were in Wales was finding her sacopheguls outside a church in Beaumaris. Aparrently after the dissolution of the monastaries, the priory that Llywellyn built for her after her death was destroyed, and the tomb was used as a horse trough! It now sits protected, and when I was there, covered with flowers. (I also found Llywellyn’s tomb in a small town but can’t remember now where that was).
I also found this site with lovely photos of places mentioned in Sharon’s welsh trilogy
http://www.walesdirectory.co.uk/Walks/Aber_Falls_Walk.htm
Hi, Cindy. The story of Joanna’s tomb is an amazing one, with odd parallels to Richard, as you point out. In all the times I’ve been there, though, I never saw flowers. That is just lovely. Maybe this means more attention is being paid to Welsh history. The town you can’t remember is one of my favorite places in Gwynedd, Llanrwst. I always stayed at the Plas Maenan, a hotel a few miles away in the Conwy River Valley. Llywelyn’s coffin (empty like Joanna’s) is in a little chapel by the church, in a very peaceful setting by the river. Llanwrst also is the home of a good friend of mine, Dave O’Shea, who runs Artistik, a lovely photo galley. I have my house decorated with Dave’s spectacular photos of Gwynedd.
I assume you are probably basking in delightful sunlight and warm spring-like temperatures today, lucky woman. Our second blizzard in four days is bearing down upon us.
Tough luck, Sharon. We have susnhine here in Israel as well. Still, one mans’ trash is the others’ treasure: we would gladly trade some sunshine for snow and rain, especially in drought years.
Sharon, thank you so much for the paragraph in your blog above that starts with, “Nor was Richard a bad king.” Heiser and Turner are right-on: if any historical figure is to be analyzed, it is important to do so using the cultural and social benchmarks of his time. Otherwise, what’s the bloody point? Part of studying history is to do just that, to get inside someone’s skin, to try to see it like it was “back then.” How else do we relate and understand? How do we answer the questions “What really happened,” and especially all the many “Whys”? That’s what makes living history so valuable – you can experience it or at least watch first hand, leading you to better understanding. Alas, it is sadly underused. Sorry, I don’t mean to sound cranky; I really enjoyed this blog entry.
I am looking forward to reading this upcoming novel. It sounds as though Richard was one smart cookie. I wonder if his style of lordship you mentioned above (looking to the safety of his men, etc.) was calculated or genuine – or both. I wonder also if his recklessness with his own safety had much, if anything, to do with his chronic illness. Having never studied Richard at all, I shall have to keep on wondering until one day I might be able to take up reading history again. For the time being, I’m mothering full time, and small children and scholarly study just don’t mix. (As I type this, one of them is humming and banging on the back of my chair. 😀 I can hardly write this at all, LOL!!!)
Keep warm. We’re having a little more rain here today (whoops, make that hail), and it very well may hit you in a few more days’ time. Who knows what it could turn into on it’s trip across the country.
PS, is it just me? I cannot find the article by Gwenllian Meredith on Eleanor and Llywelyn – I can see it mentioned on the page you linked to, but cannot find a live link to get to the article. Am I missing something? Thanks. 🙂
Well, delightful sunlight is true, but warm and spring like? No. It barely hit 60 degrees here (yes I know, you are all weeping for poor little me). Like Koby, we’d really rather have rain (and may be getting some tomorrow. We plan on a trip to the northwest this summer, so suspect we are going to get our fill of cloudy days and rain. (btw Koby, where are you in Israel? I was a volunteer on the Kibbutz Maale Hachamisha, years and decades ago) Oh and Sharon, hoping you are able to stay warm and dry. And remember, any time you feel the need to do a book tour out here, just make sure you come during February and March!
And yes, Llanwrust, thanks. I remember being worried about the time, because we took the train, and I wasn’t sure how often it ran through town. So I left a little faster than I probably needed to. But I got to see the tomb and the church.
I saw Llywelyn’s tomb in Llanrwst, but, I like the statue of him more. It’s in Aberconwy if anyone is going to Cymru anytime soon.
Good luck with the Nor’easter Sharon. This time I may be getting more snow than you. 10-20″ was the last forecast.
Iechyd da,
Dave
Hi Everyone, I really enjoy reading the blog and everyone’s insights – don’t usually contribute because I don’t have anything to add:) I do have a question though for you Sharon, and for anyone else who would like to answer. We are planning a trip to the UK next year, and while most of our time will be spent in England and Scotland we will be spending a few days in Wales. I have been to Conwy before, and years and years ago made a drive to Bangor but am not very familiar with Wales in general. I’m rereading ‘Here Be Dragons’ right now. If I have two or three days to spend in Wales what would be the best use of my time? What would you suggest to be the ‘must see’ historical sites? Thanks for your help.
Sharon, will you be renting a car? You really need one to visit the Welsh castles. I would definitely recommend Dolwyddelan Castle. And it is not far from Llanwrst, where the tomb of Llywelyn Fawr is located in a chapel by the river. The Rhaeadr Ewynol of my books is today called Swallow Falls and it is only two miles from Betws y Coed, which is not that far from Dolwyddelan. With a car, you could easily drive to Llanberis and see the haunting ruins of Dolbadarn. You could also take the beautiful drive through Aberglasyn Pass to see Cricieth, rising up on a bluff over the sea, very dramatic. Or you might want to drive over to Anglesey along the Menai Straits; the road to Beaumaris is one of the loveliest in N. Wales IMHO, and even if Beaumaris is a “conquest” castle, it is a spectacular one, still having its moat. And the tomb of Joanna is kept in St Mary’s church there. Of course there is also Caernarfon Castle, my least favorite but still amazing for anyone interested in the MA. I don’t know if Kathryn Gibson is still able to let people visit Garth Celyn, the site of the palace of the Welsh princes at Aber; I’ll ask her.
Anyone else have some suggestions for Sharon?
Thanks to Derek, here is a link to several plays about the Angevins, being broadcast on BBC radio, starting this coming Sunday. http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/proginfo/radio/2010/wk7/sun.shtml#sun_plantagenet
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And today, William IX of Aquitaine, Eleanor’s outrageous grandfather died.
Cindy, I live in the Lower Gallillee, in a religious communal settlement called Mitzpe Netofa. The weather’s always beautiful, but we need the rain.
Cindy, Koby was lucky enough to walk the battlefield at the Horns of Hattin, where Saladin destroyed the army of the crusader kingdom of Jerusalem. Koby, didn’t you tell me that there were forest fires in the area, too, when you were there? Since Saladin cleverly set fires to increase the misery of the trapped crusaders, you must have gotten a sense of how it was like for them.
Sharon,
Thank you for the speedy reply. You must be trapped in due to the snowstorm as we are here in Ohio. While Sharon is a lovely name, actually my name is Susan. I met you briefly in Ann Arbor, and I am the one that is always after you to get your books available on Kindle, which, thankfully, most of them are now. Of course I also have copies of all of your books in hardcover!
Yes, we will be renting a car. I have printed out all of your suggestions and will consider them an itinerary to map out. I have also made note of your suggestion of Plas Maenan and checked out their website. It looks like a good location for a home base while exploring in Wales. Now I just have to make sure that my husband reads “Here Be Dragons” before our trip so that he can be appropriately interested in all of the sites I will be dragging him to.
One other note – I love the way that you are so accessible to your readers and how involved you get in our questions and discussions. I eagerly check your blog every day (sometimes more than once) to see what new gems have been posted.
Well, since there isn’t actually a forest there, there were no forest fires. However, it being the hot Israeli summer, there were plenty of dead weeds and grasses, just waiting for a spark to light them…
Yes, that is what Saladin set on fire, too. Koby, some of the most interesting crusader material comes from Israeli scholars, like J. Prawer. Fortunately for me, some of his books have been published in English!
Susan,
Though not having to do with “Here be Dragons” if you get to Ynys Mon make sure to see Bryn Celli Ddu. It’s a burial chamber that I consider more fantastic than Pentre Ifan.
Iechyd Da,
Dave
Koby, for some reason I didn’t get to that area when I was in Israel – I had just graduated HS, had never been out of the country before, and while I was excited to see everything, I didn’t know what to see. I pretty much followed the older volunteers on their traveled. Im still amazed they put up with me, actually…
My cousin came to volunteer once, also in a Kibbutz. He became a ‘cowboy’, working with the cows in the field. When he went back, he took a dried cow skull with him – it turns out there are no restrictions prohibiting cow skulls as luggage!
Also, today Elizabeth of York, Edward IV’s daughter was both born and died.
Sharon, as you have said many times the internet is a wonderful place for amateur researchers like myself. Yesterday, while checking on the death of Llywelyn ap Gruffudd, I came across a most fascinating thesis by an unnamed student: ‘Women and Welsh Medieval Histiography’, which is a 235 page thesis on the role of Welsh noblewomen in the thirteenth century.
Beautifully researched and written it contains articles/biographies of many of the famous names we know so well:
Senena ferch Caradog – wife of Gruffudd ap Llywelyn.
Joanna (Siwan) wife of Llywelyn Fawr. Includes much about the laws of Wales as applied to women and concerning her adultery.
Five daughters of llywelyn Fawr (she concurs that Gwladus was the legitimate daughter of Llywelyn and Joanna!).
Margaret of Bromfield – daughter of Gruffudd and Senena and sister of Llywelyn ap Gruffudd.
The abduction and rape of Maud Clifford (she who pleaded for the christian burial of llywelyn ap Gruffudd’s body!).
Eleanor de Montfort, wife of Llywelyn ap Gruffudd, Elizabeth de Ferrers, wife of dafydd ap Gruffudd, and much more.
Don’t know who the student was but this thesis could provide a budding author with much upon which to base several books!!
http://ses.library.usyd.edu.au/bitstream/2123/1097/2/02whole.pdf
In relation to my comment on Joanna above, I should have said; concerning her ‘alleged’ adultery’!!!
Why ‘alleged’, Ken? Sharon has never denied the adultery, and I doubt that any of us have either. She simply claims the circumstances were not as believed.
Ken, thank you for posting this link. I know we’ll all want to check it out. But how could they not credit the student who wrote the thesis? That is awful!
Koby,
Because we just don’t know! Sharon wrote a (beautiful) novel – based on meticulous research. However, that research is only as good as the people who wrote it at the time or wrote it way after that time, have handed down!
Most historians write that William had ‘been caught’ in Joanna’s bedroom. Not in ‘caught in flagrant delit!’ I personally find it difficult to believe that a ‘Prince of Wales,’ in the thirteenth century, after being so ‘shamed’ and after hanging the culprit, would, within a year, take back his wife and remain with her for the next 7 years and finally honour her memory with the foundation of a Priory in her name and award her so much honour, if he truly believed that she had committed adultery with another man, the ultimate shame!
It all seems so improbable given also that William was in his twenties and Joanna in her forties!And because I think it’s a question of maybe yes, maybe no! I think that ‘alleged’ is an apt description.
Let’s not forget that Llywelyn, within three months of the hanging, wrote to William’s family, apologising that he had had no option but to hang him, but requesting that the marriage of his daughter go ahead with another de Braose! Not the actions of a man who was outraged by the indiscretions of two members of their families!
Interesting points raised, Ken. I bow to your logic. Although there is one flaw in it – if there was no Adultery, what took Llywelyn so long to take Joanna back? The only reason I can think of for that was that he truly thought there had been adultery – and seeing how loving and devoted a husband he was, he must have had reason for thinking so. If there was no adultery, why would he besmirch Joanna’s reputation by waiting so long to take her back, thus making everybody certain that ‘something’ had indeed happened?
http://arts.monash.edu.au/publications/eras/edition-3/richards.php
Hey Ken,
I typed in a sentance into google and I think this might be your author: Gwyneth Richards. Hopefully, I just started reading it (287 pages!) and it looks excellent.
Doug Rushkoff in Life Inc. has an interesting new take on the Middle Ages. His idea is that the Middle Ages, at least the beginning of them, were actually more happy and healthy for the average person than the Renaissance, when corporations began to loom on the scene. That surprised me.
Koby,
Again only conjecture on my part, but a year away from court would have been the minimum ‘punishment’ demanded by those same Welsh Barons who had demanded that Llywelyn execute William (according to the paper I wrote about above, execution was not the normal punishment for adultery in Wales).
There are many ideas about what William was doing, visiting Joanna in her private rooms, including a plot to lure him there. We’ll never know.
I stick with my opinion that if there had truly been an affair and adultery between William and Joanna, she would have remained in prison or would have been sent to a nunnery. That she received the forgiveness of her husband and was restored to high position at court, tells me that her ‘offence’ was rather less than that.
Cate,
Great detective work – it never occured to me to do that. I have now checked several passages from both papers concerning Margaret of Bromfield and they are certainly by the same writer. I have read most of the paper and it really is an excellent piece of work. I must look up Gwyneth Richards to see what else she has done.
Dave, Thank you for the Wales itinerary suggestion. I will add it to my list. I have also downloaded the research paper that you suggested Ken, and have sent it to my Kindle so that I can read it at leisure. Thank you everyone for the many interesting suggestions, book recommendations, and links.
Susan
Sharon, I just finished the trilogy for my 2nd or 3rd time, always finding something new or re-thinking my orginal beliefs. Last year I was fortunate to spend 2 weeks in the Republic of Ireland. In my own car, I was able to go wherever I wished without the trouble of a tour group. One place that I spent a good bit of time at was Glendalough. There I discovered a ancestor I never knew of. Lawrence O’Toole. At the age of 25 he became the Archbishop of Dublin. Is this the Archbishop who visits Henry in France? I know that he died in there, and that his heart became a object of pilgrimage to Christchurch in Dublin. And one other question. You never really covered Henry’s time in Ireland. What happened between him and Strongbow?
My first book by Sharon was “Here Be Dragons” and ever since I read it Llywelyn Fawr has been my favorite ruler and Eleanor of Aquitaine runs a close second. I also agree with Sharon and Koby about Dayvdd. He tried really hard, but he was not able to live long enough to take back Wales. I also have always felt a certain respect for Simon de Monfort. He was never “king” but he did rule or pull the strings for Henry III. And he did have some of the right ideas about how a king should rule. He was in some ways a man before his time.
On another note….Sharon, I hope you are dug out by now. I live just outside of Reading, PA and we met last summer in West Chester. I am on my 3rd snow day today. Our back roads are still a mess. I also hope Cody is enjoying the snow. It is over my dog’s head and she is a lab!
And today, Mary of Burgundy, Margaret of York’s step-daughter was born to Margaret’s husband, Charles the Bold.
Again, you raise an excellent point, Ken. But if so, what do you believe happened to bring William to Joanna’s bedchamber, and what was Joanna’s fault?
By the way, Ken: Is this logic and skill at arguing how you convinced Lady Mittens to resign her job and join you?
Koby, I have to rely on the chroniclers of the time, but as I understand it, it went like this:
Apparently Joanna made incredibly good Welsh cakes. If you haven’t tried these, I’ll send you the recipe (handed down through the ages) and you will see for yourself! It is said that William had an incredibly sweet tooth (don’t we all?) and could not resist the smell of baking that came from Joanna’s rooms. Entering, ravenously hungry, he apparently (again) said ” Joanna, I cannot resist. Will you let me have a nibble?”
Llywelyn, who, after a very hard day at court, was on his way to Joanna’s rooms for afternoon tea, heard what William said and totally misunderstanding the intent behind the remark, he entered and accused William of attempting to do more than taste his wife’s cookies.
William aparently (again) retorted that Joanna’s cookies were beyond compare and he would not give them up. eating another man’s wife’s cookies in Wales in the thirteenth century was an offence punishable by death and therefore Llywelyn had no option, but to punish the man.
Joanna, for her part in luring the young man with her superb culinary skills was condemned to a nunnery to be re-educated in producing the bland, tasteless, biscuits and cookies that we know today.
It’s a pity isn’t it?
BTW. Miss Kittens is with Thor, not me – we had a falling out of the ‘robe malfunction’ kind!!
I bow before your superior knowledge of history, Ken. Were Joanna’s cookies so good because she used Magic Princess products to make them?
LOL, guys. I don’t really agree with your conclusions, Ken(prior to the baking explanation!) but I am always interested in how you argue your case.
Koby, Balian of Ibelin makes his first appearance as a character in the chapter I’m working on now. Sadly, he won’t get much time on centre stage at all in this book, but I’ll make it up to him in The Lands Beyond the Sea.
Sherri,
You’re not too far away from me then. I live in Pen Argyl, and work for Edy’s Ice Cream. One of the stores on my route is the Weis in Kutztown.
Dave.
Dave…That is were I do the majority of my shopping. It sounds as though we are in for more snow Monday into Tuesday. Around here I don’t know where we will put it.
Were you at the book signing in West Chester? If so, I think we probably sort of met there. My friend and I were the two teachers. I teach history and she was the English teacher. We were almost the 2 of the last people to leave. I think we have the same likes of the Welsh princes. It sounds like you have been to Wales. It is my dream to go some day.
Sherri
And today, Marguerite of France, Philip III’s daughter and Edward I’s second wife died.
Sherri,
Yes, I was at West Chester. When Sharon asked if I was there I was the one who replied Dafydd eu fenw. As for going to Wales, I’ve been there twice, and am trying to save enough money to immigrate there one day. I have a mortgage to pay off, but it’s a small one, and if immigration lets me through I think I could adjust to the culture. As for your dream, I hope it comes true. A word of advice though, with the price of airfare being as high as it is, it’s best to go for a fortnight. One week is not enough.
As for the snow, I haven’t checked an official forecast yet, but I have heard we are in for more.
Iechyd da,
Dave
Richard II also died today. Quite unfortunate =(
My favourites, oh my…
In no particular order: Eleanor of Aquitaine, Llewelyn Fawr, Richard III, John Lackland (yeah, that’s right EVIL KING JOHN), Hatshepsut (k, she’s my favourite, I accept it), Elizabeth I, Robert the Bruce, Genghis Khan, Empress Theodora, Catherine de Medici, Isabella of Castile, and Uther Pendragon.
My favourite rulers are a little different from the rest: Alexius I Comnenus, followed by John II Comnenus (Byzantine rulers in the late 11th and early 12th centuries), followed by Elizabeth I and Prince Albert. My criteria for good rulers is did they improve the lives of the ruled and each of them did.
Malena–
>>Quick question: How far apart is French from the Middle Ages to modern French?
Depends on where it was written (even more than when). I’ve never formally studied medieval French in any way, but found that once I’d gotten a bit of common vocabulary in hand, the Song of Roland was relatively easy to read. Chretien de Troyes was okay, Marie de France harder yet, and Beroul completely impenetrable. Right now I’m reading La Chanson de la Croisade Albigeoise (written by men of Occitan), of which I’d say I’m getting ~65% without reference to the modern translation. I’ve also read Bernard de Ventadorn and some of the other southern troubadours without much difficulty. My general recollection (it’s been a while) is that the Northerners tend to be tougher–Charlemagne and his court spoke a Germanic language (Frankish) after all, and it clearly affected the vocabulary for quite some time–yet unlike with Chaucer, knowing modern German is of no help at all. The langues d’oc stayed closer to Latin.
I’m tickled by how many people mention Hatshepsut–she was a childhood heroine of mine (followed by Eleanor d’A.)! I had no idea she was so widely known. Other faves: Elizabeth I, Edward I (say what you will about his goals and methods–he was an extraordinarily strong-willed guy, and appears a truly larger-than-life character in anything I’ve ever read about him–fact or fiction), Lorenzo de Medici, Henri de Navarre…and Sharon’s Llewellyns.
My own favorite rulers would have to include Basil I of Byzantium (hey, anybody who starts out as a stableboy and ends up Emperor has to have a lot going for him!), Alexius Comnenos of Byzantium, Richard III, and the first Tokugawa Shogun of Japan. I’d probably include some Chinese rulers, but the histories I’ve read don’t give enough for me to really feel like I know them as individuals.
Good read.
I’ll be back for sure
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Edward III who I think shares the ability of Henry II to always subvert the man for the king (apart from the women in their lives), I am fascinated by this capability as it is so alien to me. It is a visible quality in successful people today.
Hey can I reference some of the content found in this post if I link back to you?
Nice to get a slice of a writers mind whilst the process is still going on. So often, we get to hear about thought and ideas once the book has come together, which is inevitably tainted by hindsight.
I have just recently been introduced to you, Sharon, as a author of MA writings. I have read many different books about the time and charaters of that time. To spite the total enjoyment of those prespectives and Historical Fiction, I still felt wanting and not quite satisfied that I really knew the main charaters. From King Author to Elizabeth I, Mary Queen of Scots, and so forth, I craved more. I first began to read Time and Chance, a gift from one of my children. As soon as I realized it was the second in your Henry II and Eleanor, I put it aside and rushed for the other two and began at your beginning. Much was left undone and neglected as I read and toted these books around everywhere I went. The only satisfaction to their completion is that you are a very dedicated writer and there are many more for me to gobble up while I wait for the next and the next. Thank you for each and every one and your generious endorcements of fellow Authors that share your dedication to past times in the era that I so love.
As for wanting to step into a time machine and visit those times, you have provided one, in your wonderfully writen naritives and insights. My limited health does not include my ability to read and transport my mind and happiness when lost in your books. I crave them and again, I thank you.
Thank you in support of acquiring the time to speak about this, I feel strongly about that and love studying a whole lot a lot more on this topic. If achievable, when you acquire expertise, would you mind updating your blog with extra facts? It really is incredibly quite helpful.
Love Sharon’s books. Great reading. Favorite kings would be Henry Ii, Edward I and Richard III (who I agree with Sharon gets a bum rap). Favorite royal of all time would have to be The Black Prince. Seems to be the reincarnation of Richard I. Great warrior and leader of men, less successful as a ruler.
Your blog is genuinely fantastic. I love looking through it having said that, the writing looks kinda strange while using the chrome net broswer
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Sharon, I enjoyed reading your views of Richard, especially how you broke throught the usual misperceptions about him. I could not tell if you read the excellent work about Richard by Professor Gillingham, but you must have. People have a hard time understanding the relationship between Richard and Berengere because of the lack of original source information, and private information most likely would not have been included if it existed. But consider these facts: they are married on the way to a foreign war, she is held a prisoner and rescued by Richard; then off to Acre where he gets sick and still captures the city; she remains in Acre and he heads south, fights some key battles, including the internal war caused by Philip and his kinsmen against Richard; makes friends with Al Adil, the brother of Saladin; makes a truce due to a conspiracy between John and Philip in order to head home and save his crowns; is ship wrecked and taken prison for about 1.5 years; returns to England and is crowned again; spends 5 years retaking his lands stolen by Philip in contravention to his Crusader oath, as well as dealing with a conspiracy between Philip and three of Richard’s continental vassals. How or when in this exptraordinary marital history complicated by marital matters did Richard and Berengere have time to have a change of a normal relationship for the times? And this is complated by her quiet upbringing in Navarre. Berengere did not grow up in the rough and tumble life of Aquitaine as did Alienor. Look at the stress she was contantly under. Good chance that interfered with her reproductive functions. The most intruging fact for me is that the two of them had purchased a small house to live it. The original source/reference is in French and I have not tracked it down yet. It looks like they had plans to live together once things settled down. He passed at Callus in April, 1199 and that ended their life for that time.
Sharon, I enjoyed reading your views of Richard, especially how you broke through the usual misperceptions about him. I could not tell if you read the excellent work about Richard by Professor Gillingham, but you must have. People have a hard time understanding the relationship between Richard and Berengere because of the lack of original source information, and private information most likely would not have been included if it existed. But consider these facts: they are married on the way to a foreign war; she is held a prisoner and rescued by Richard; then off to Acre where he gets sick and still captures the city; she remains in Acre and he heads south, fights some key battles, including the internal war caused by Philip and his kinsmen against Richard; makes friends with Al Adil, the brother of Saladin; makes a truce due to a conspiracy between John and Philip in order to head home and save his crowns; is ship wrecked and taken prison for about 1.5 years; returns to England and is crowned again; and spends 5 years retaking his lands stolen by Philip in contravention to his Crusader oath, as well as dealing with a conspiracy between Philip and three of Richard’s continental vassals. How or when in this extraordinary marital history complicated by martial matters did Richard and Berengere have time to have a change of a normal relationship for the times? And this is complicated by her quiet upbringing in Navarre. Berengere did not grow up in the rough and tumble life of Aquitaine as did Alienor. Look at the stress Berengere was constantly under. Good chance that interfered with her reproductive functions. The most intriguing fact for me is that the two of them had purchased a small house to live it. The original source/reference is in French and I have not tracked it down yet. It looks like they had plans to live together once things settled down. He passed at Callus in April, 1199 and that ended their life for that time.
Hack again?!
Joel Grey's 'Anything Goes:' Review: David Rooney Cole Porter songs and tap-dancing sailors? What?s not to love?
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