I am pleased to welcome a friend and fellow Ricardian, Anne Easter Smith, whose new novel about Cecily Neville, Queen by Right, hits the stores this week. There can never be enough books about Richard III and his family and I am looking forward to reading Anne’s view of Cecily’s life.
Q. “Queen By Right” is your fourth book in a series about the York family. Where does it fit in with the others?
A. First of all, let me thank you very much for agreeing to let me guest post on your prestigious blog. As you are one of my favorite authors, it is quite an honor to be here! To answer your question, you could call this the prequel to the other three, Sharon. I started, like you, with the story of the real Richard III in “A Rose for the Crown”, and because I had a two-book contract with Simon & Schuster, I chose to write about Richard’s sister Margaret of Burgundy in “Daughter of York.” I followed up on a thread in that book about a “secret boy” Margaret had taken under her wing and wrote “The King’s Grace.” It includes my theory on whether or not Perkin Warbeck, the pretender to the throne in the 1490s, was indeed the younger of the two princes in the Tower, who were supposedly murdered by their uncle, Richard III. (You and I know that was not the case, however!) In all three of those books, the matriarch of the house of York, Cecily Neville, duchess of York, kept popping in and out or was never far from her children’s thoughts when it came to them making decisions, and when she did, you could not help be drawn to her strong personality, notice the influence she had on her children, and be intrigued by the drama of her life. Richard was only nine, George of Clarence twelve and Margaret fourteen when Cecily was widowed. Her oldest son, Edward became king at nineteen, six months after his father’s death, and Cecily guided his steps in those first years of his reign. I end the book with Edward’s coronation, and when I watched the royal wedding last week, I could not help but imagine the young Edward taking exactly the same walk up that astonishing nave to the altar as William did.
Q. What did you find out about Cecily Neville that you didn’t know from your previous research?
A. “Queen By Right” takes us to Cecily’s early life when she and Richard became betrothed in 1424 and up to Edward’s coronation. I had written lots about events during the Wars of the Roses, but I had never really delved into why Richard of York chose to assert his claim to the throne when he did. So all of that research meant understanding Richard’s whole life and career. He was orphaned at age four and lived in the shadow of the treason and attainting of his father, and I think it affected his behavior for a long time and caused many of Henry VI’s councilors to shun him–like father like son, they may have thought, and he believed. Like Benedict Arnold during the Revolutionary War, the man was pushed out of the circle of power one too many times and he eventually snapped. In 1424, when the book starts, England was in the second half of the Hundred Years War (of course, they didn’t know this at the time or that it would be called that!) and how important Normandy was in the scheme of things. England had “owned” it since Willie the Conk (William the Conqueror) was crowned in 1066. Over the next three hundred years, bits and pieces were lost to the French and finally Edward III decided to start fighting for it. It wasn’t until Henry V (“Once more unto the breach dear friends”) won decisive victory at Agincourt in 1415 (three months before Cecily was born) that things began to go England’s way. To get back to your question, though. Cecily and Richard found themselves in Rouen, the seat of the English government in Normandy, a couple of times: once with the king’s household in 1431. If that date doesn’t quite ring a bell with anyone, they are forgiven! It isn’t all of us who know that in May of that year, Joan of Arc was tried and burned at the stake. And yes, Cecily was there. Then I followed the couple to back to Normandy when Richard was governor in the early 1440s, and onto Ireland, where Richard was “ordered” to be lord lieutenant (actually to get him out of the way again). Cecily’s role was very much one of military wife, and that’s something I can relate to, having been one myself! I had not realized how much Cecily had traveled.
Q. What were the challenges you faced with this book compared with the others?
A. My biggest challenge was having to start my research from scratch this time. All my other books took place from 1460 and to the end of the century. Now I was in the first half of the century and I suddenly realized I was back in the Hundred Years War, an event I had conveniently buried in my schoolbook memory and had to resurrect. I didn’t know the politics and more importantly, I didn’t know the characters. Most of the people were dead by the time my other books started. Up until then for me, the only duke of Gloucester was our Richard, and now I had to get to know another one–and a very important man from 1420s to 1440s. So instead of borrowing from my knowledge and library of the second half of the 15th century, I was having to build a whole new framework for my story. I don’t know how some authors are able to jump around history so effortlessly! I have been steeped only in the 15th century for fifteen years. Another challenge was creating a character whose personality so many readers have already formed from other sources. Cecily will invariably show up in any book about Richard III, Edward IV, Elizabeth Woodville, Margaret of Anjou etc., but other than Eleanor Fairburn’s 1970s trilogy about Cecily, “Queen by Right” is the only novel about her since then. I truly loved telling her story.
Q. On a personal note, Anne, which of your characters do you relate to most?
R. I have to say that Margaret of York is the one that made me want to befriend her. When I was researching her, I was thrilled to know she was tall for her age. Being six feet myself, I know we would have some horror stories to share about our height problems. I was also delighted to know that she was such a bibliophile, as am I. And of all the romantic interests in any of my four books, Anthony would have also been the one I fell for! Although I was also drawn to John of Gloucester in “The King’s Grace.” Both were much too young for me, however 😉
Q. Are you writing another book?
R. I never thought I’d ever write more than one, Sharon, so to be writing a fifth blows my mind. I have threatened that this is the last in the York family series, but who knows what might transpire while I am writing it. Someone might jump out at me during my research and say “Tell my story,” so I am hedging my bets. This new one is about Edward IV’s mistress, Jane Shore, who made an appearance in “Sunne in Splendor” I believe. She had quite a dramatic 10 year period in her life that I couldn’t resist, and so, as with my other books, I am showing one of the important men of the period through the eyes of a woman. Even though Edward IV figures in all of my books as a major character, I have not really focused on him yet.
Thanks again, Sharon, for sharing your space with me. I can’t wait to read “Lionheart”!
Thank you, Anne, for sharing your thoughts with us. I am delighted that you will be writing about Jane Shore next, as she is one of my favorite royal mistress, second only to Charles II’s Nell Gwynn. It is about time Jane got a book of her own!
May 9, 2011
Oi weh, my booklist on amazon is going to burst. good thing there is no limit to it… ‘-) Thanx for another author interview and therefore more book recommendations.
Sharon, not sure if you would be interested, but there is at least on other Jane book that could perhaps tide you over until Anne’s is released. I believe it is called ‘The Goldsmith’s Daughter’ and is written by Jean Plaidy. I picked it up at a used bookstore during my last pregnancy and haven’t had a chance to read it yet. I would imagine it is a typical Plaidy book; I credit her books with giving me the hunger for history. Well, her books and ‘Brief, Gaudy Hour’ by Margaret Barnes.
Hoo boy, I have over 200 books on my to-read list currently. I can’t read fast enough to keep up with the stream of newly-released books!
Thank you for the interview! I have recently been hearing good things about Anne Easter Smith, and have been making mental notes to pick up her books!
I thoroughly enjoyed “A Rose of the Crown” and have had “Queen by Right” on my amazon shopping list since February. It will likely be added to my cart when my amazon reward points come in! *Note*- my husband (just for kicks) put off my shopping list into my cart just to see how much my book obsession would set us back. Let’s just say he and I could enjoy a trip around the world, more than once 🙂
The U.S. cover is another headless lady; well, ok, half her head is “cut off” from the page, not the entire one ‘-) And another green dress. So glad Sharon’s books escape that fate.
Adri, you are right about Jean Plaidy. I read it back in the day (I have almost all of Jean’s original paperbacks weighing down my shelf) and it is called “The Goldsmith”s Wife.” Actually, she was a mercer’s wife (the wealthiest of the merchant guilds in the 15th century) and a mercer’s daughter. I decided she deserved a new look after forty years!
That’s it! Wife, not daughter haha! Anne, I will definitely be reading your book about Jane Shore; I dearly love historical novels told from the perspective of the ‘supporting cast’ so to speak 😉
I am not a fan of Jean Plaidy, although I know her books have introduced many readers to history, which is always a good thing, right?
Susan, what is it about Plaidy’s writing that you don’t care for? I have a few of her books, but to be very honest they don’t grab my attention like your books do. Thanks to you, I also have enjoyed a few Elizabeth Chadwick books as well.
Sharon, I am sorry, I realized I addressed you as Susan. Blame it on a senior moment. I really am interested in your take on Jean Plaidy. I was introduced to her way back in 1970 when I was with my husband at Nato in Belgium. There was paper published every week and it had a chapter of “The Mistress of Melyn” so I read that book.
As I said, though, I have picked up a couple of her books in recent years and they definitely are not as interesting as your books. So I am curious about why you are not a fan of her work. You are a very reliable and authentic writer so I take your advice seriously. Thanks
I very nearly picked up a Jean Plaidy the other day – I was impatiently waiting for another book to arrive at my library, and spotted a few of Plaidy on the shelf. But I held back until I could question my GR fellows, and I was warned off them. Don’t worry, I always read a book if I’m determined to, no matter what others say, but this was really confirmation of my own dubious thoughts on the matter. And I just thought to myself – I’d rather give it a miss and spend my valuable time reading something that I’d really like.
Oh the things you do to my Amazon Wish List, Sharon…
I find the period of the War of the Roses to be very fascinating and will definitely add “Queen by Right” to my Amazon wish list. I got all of Anne Easter Smith’s novels this past Christmas. I haven’t read them yet but it will be great to discover a new series and author. I have heard great things about Ms. Smith so I’m sure I’m in for a treat. Thanks again for a wonderful interview! To Ms. Smith, good luck writing your novel about Jane Shore. I am definitely looking forward to reading that novel!
I was introduced to my love of British history and all things British by Victoria Holt who also wrote as Jean Plaidy. I read all of her books that I could find and loved them until I discovered SKP, Diana Gabaldon and Margaret George and I understood what great writing really is! But I will always be grateful to Holt/Plaidy for putting me on the path of great historical novels!
And on this day in the not-so distant history, I was born. 🙂
Lol, I tried to find actual historical events, but the only events I could dig up for this day in Medieval History weren’t exactly happy ones – Jews in England were imprisoned for coining, the English lost the Battle of Loudoun hill, and this was the day that official legal proceedings began against Anne Boleyn and the men accused with her.
Hopefully Koby can dig up some more happy events on this day of my birthday in history!
Susanne, JP is historically inaccurate and for me, that is the cardinal sin!
A Facebook friend posted this video of Mont St Michel on one of my Facebook pages, and I thought you guys might like to watch it, too. A truly amazing place.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PhFkGI9_-Y&feature=youtu.be
Happy b’day Beth! Looks like the Scots recognized Edward I’s authority today in 1291, according to Nan Hawthorne’s Today in Medieval History and also timeref.com/today. NOTHING out of the ordinary seems to have happened on my birthday in all of the M.A.s ‘-( I’ll see what Koby comes up with when the day arrives.
Did the Scots, get help from the Templars! (At Bannockburn) in 1314,?? Any grail theories Sharon?.
Hi Anne, I am so looking forward to reading this book on Cecily Neville. I plan to attend you New Canaan, CT reading on June 3rd. Folks, Anne has her tour schedule posted on her website here. Joan
I’ll look forward to seeing you, Joan! And I agree with Sharon re: Jean Plaidy — why she called Jane Shore the goldsmith’s wife, I am not sure unless she wrote the book before 1972 when two researchers writing for the Etonian magazine finally identified Elizabeth Lambert’s correct family. Even so, she did marry William Shore, who was a mercer, not a goldsmith. I read JP when I first discovered HF and, as Sharon suggests, I graduated to the likes of Anya Seton and SKP. My collection of JP came from my godmother, who left them to me a couple of years ago when she died. What is astounding is her prolific output (especially as she was also Victoria Holt and Philippa Carr among other pseudonyms). Puts me to shame!
I’ve found that Jean Plaidy/Victoria Holt tends to let the romantic plot lead rather than the historical facts as we know them, if there’s a conflict between the two. She also, to me, has a very “flat” prose style that I don’t find interesting.
Jean Plaidy really did a lot to bring historical fiction to a wide variety of readers, and she was definitely the gateway for a lot of people. I respect her for that, even if she’s not my own cup of tea.
Sharon, I loved this discussion with Anne Easter Smith, all of whose earlier books I’ve read and enjoyed. I also like Jean Plaidy initially, am terrifically impressed by the breadth of her knowledge and output but became impatient with her simplicity when I started reading yours. Good for a beginning, though. I’m now enjoying Helen Hollick, at your suggestion, after devouring all of Elizabeth Chadwick, also at your suggestion, and much of Sharan Newman, ditto. What would this field do without you and your wonderful suggestions? You keep me mentally alive! And I can’t wait for Lionheart and all the other good ones coming. Thanks again!
Thank you, Sheila. It is always fun to share books with others. When I find a new book that I really enjoy, I am hard put not to stop strangers on the street and talk it up!
Sorry for my absence – jet lag and driving around New York to get to relatives is not conducive to my checking things on the internet. But, since I’m back:
Today, Berengaria of Navarre married Richard I and was subsquently crowned Queen of England. Also, the Battle of Lewes, where Simon de Montfort was to defeat Henry III [IV] began (preliminary movements and some skirmishing, not the actual battle).
Queen By Right sounds fascinating. I must see if I can find it, since I’m already in the US.
Beth: Happy Birthday! Many more to come! as for events on May 10th: Amerigo Vespucci left Cádiz for his first voyage to the New World, a small Colonial militia led by Ethan Allen and Colonel Benedict Arnold captured Fort Ticonderoga, Representatives from the Thirteen Colonies began the Second Continental Congress in Philadelphia, The National Gallery in London opened to the public, Victoria Woodhull became the first woman nominated for President of the United States, The Supreme Court of the United States ruled in Nix v. Hedden that a tomato is a vegetable, not a fruit, Mother’s Day was observed for the first time in the United States, in Grafton, West Virginia, Winston Churchill was appointed Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, and Nelson Mandela was inaugurated as South Africa’s first black president.
I think the National Gallery one whould please you greatly, if nothing else.
Here is today’s Facebook note.
I’d like to thank Tracy-Anne for reminding me that today is the anniversary of Richard Lionheart’s marriage to Berengaria of Navarre–May 12, 1191. Both of the chroniclers accompanying Richard on crusade described the wedding for us. The author of the Itinerarium, Richard de Templo, prior of the Augustinian priory of Holy Trinity in London, who may have been a Templar, describes Berengaria as “very wise and of good character” and says Richard was “merry and full of delight.” The author of the Estoire de la Guerre Sainte, Ambroise, who may have been a jongleur, says Berengaria was “beautiful, with a bright countenance” and Richard was “in great glory, rejoicing in his victory and his marriage.” Berengaria was, of course, the only queen to be wed and crowned on Cyprus, and the only English queen never to set foot in England. It is true there is evidence that John issued her safe-conducts to visit England several times during his reign, but there is no evidence that she actually made use of them. John treated her very shabbily and life as a young widow was not easy for her. She never remarried and eventually settled in Le Mans, after making a deal with the French king, where she founded an abbey not long before her death, more than 30 years after Richard took a crossbow bolt before the walls of Chalus.
Koby, Tracy-Anne beat you to the punch today. Welcome back. And a belated Happy Birthday, Beth. It sounds as if quite a lot happened on your birthday!
Indeed, Sharon but it is to be expected – I don’t have the advantage of being 7 hours ahead of you now.
Indeed, I do like the Gallery one! My favourite is the Cadiz expedition. But I guess 10th May was a quiet day in Medieval history, huh?!
Berengaria seems to have been much overlooked, I think. I am looking forwards to reading your portrayal of her in Lionheart, Sharon! Are there any surviving images of her?
Sharon, do you have any recommendations for a book regarding the Knights Templar?
There is a lovely effigy of Berengaria in the abbey she founded near Le Mans, Beth, but no reliable descriptions. The most famous comes from the snarky Richard of Devizes, who said she was more prudent than pretty, but he never laid eyes upon her. The chronicler Ambroise, who most likely did, said she was beautiful,but then they often said that about princesses, and Ambroise seems to have been something of a romantic since he thought Richard had been pining for Berengaria since he was Count of Poitou! We do know that Berengaria’s mother was said to be lovely and so was her sister Sancha, who wed the Count of Champagne, for what that’s worth, if anything. Berengaria took her secrets to the grave; we can’t even be sure of her age, although her biographer Ann Trindade makes a very convincing case that she was born c. 1170.
Susanne, I recommend Sharan Newman’s excellent debunking of the Templar myths, The Real History Behind the Templars.
Koby-
My hubby and I are headed to NYC this weekend. Maybe amongst the 3+ million people, we will run into each other! Hope you are having a wonderful time in the States!
Thank you, Sharon, for the information on the Templars. If things keep going as they are I am going to have to move furniture out to make room for my books!
Here is today’s Facebook Note. I’m sorry I can’t add the photo here.
Well, the MRI of my back showed it is just as bad as we feard–pinched nerves, herniated discs, all that makes life fun. I will not be able to spend as much time on the computer and Facebook as my doctor and chiropractor try to put Humpty Dumpty back together again; anyone know a good faith healer? Meanwhile, my incredible streak of bad luck with my dogs continues, as I have had to put my little poodle down after she took a sudden and severe turn for the worse; some of you may remember that she was diagnosed as being in kidney failure back in January. I know I made the right deciision to end her suffering, but it is never an easy one. So I am probably going to MIA for a while, but judging from all the activity here yesterday, I am sure you guys can carry on without me. The photo is my favorite of Chelsea, taken when she was a puppy as she played with my shepherd Cody.
Sharon, I am so sorry to hear about your Chelsea. I know how hard it can be. It is good that you have your shepherd to keep you company and comfort you. I have recently had a hip replacement so I know about back pain. You will be in my prayers.
Thank you, Susanne. I just came from the doctor with some more pain meds which I hope will get me through the weekend. I may have to get a cortisone shot, though. A good friend had hip replacement surgery recently and it has made such a difference for her–I hope it does for you, too.
H
Here is today’s Facebook note.
On this date in 1264, Simon de Montfort prevailed over the forces of his royal brother-in-law Henry III at the Battle of Lewes. Writers look for “hooks” when writing of battles, something out of the ordinary, otherwise the battles tend to blur, one into the other. This was a “fun” battle, thanks to Edward’s mistake in leaving the field to slaughter the fleeing Londoners, and of course Simon was quick to take advantage of it. Being able to view the royalist side of the battle through Davydd’s sardonic eyes was fun, too. So as a writer, I’d rate Lewes as one of my favorite battles, right up there with Barnet and Tewkesbury. I remember following my godson Geoff along a bridle path as we tried to track the path of Simon’s army and suddenly coming out onto the Downs and seeing the town below, the same sight Simon and his army would have seen on that long-ago morning. It was as if the mists of history had parted for a fleeing moment.
Thank you all for your sympathy over Chelsea’s loss and for the excellent suggestions about how to treat my ailing back. I’d been thinking about yoga for some time myself, will definitely give it a try once I’m physically able to do so.
Sharon, just a suggestion for your trip. I made one trip to England and India and one to England again before my surgery and with back pain (well, you know) it was a little uncomfortable. I took advantage of the wheel chairs at the airports. After all of this, I swore I was going to patent a cushion to sit on for the airplane!! Forget the neck pillow, I would much rather have had a cushion to sit on because it really helps your back. Hope you feel better soon.
I have just reread “the Thistle and the Rose” by Jean Plaidy to see what this discussion is about.
The books used to give me a sort of timeline and who was who and related to whom. But with all the newer authors and more research done I’m past this stage. Which makes me wonder how influenced we are of the time we live in. J.P. was born 1906 and the values were different in her time, and the style of writing.
Also, as english is not my first language I had to learn to read and understand and after 40 years of practice I think I’m quite proficient…….ha, ha… I started to reread Edith Parageter and I still don’t get it all. The language has changed (even swedish) and is much more simple today. Good or bad??
Your English is very good, Monica, but I could still tell that it was not your first language. A couple of times you use words that are not quite right and sound a little bit strange to me as a native English speaker. But you are very good, the only mistakes you made are very tiny ones, so you should be proud of yourself!
My sympathy to everyone with aches and pains! I myself have had laryngitis for the past month. Today was the first morning that I didn’t wake up uncontrollably coughing, and I only have a moderate coughing fit two or three times a day now – at the worst point I was having severe coughing fits every few minutes it seemed like, so much so that I was getting headaches and bruising my ribs. Some people lose their voice also, but I didn’t lose it completely. So today has been a good day because I finally feel that I’m on the road to normality again.
For the battle of Lewes, I love the exchange of letters between Simon and Henry just before the battle! You can almost imagine their words being read out aloud before both sides realised that battle (Civil war!) was unavoidable!
‘Thence he (Simon) sent the Bishops of London and Worcester to make a last attempt at reconciliation. The two prelates took with them a courteous letter, addressed by the Earls of Leicester and Gloucester to the King. “To their most excellent lord Henry, by the grace of God King of England, &c.; The barons and other his lieges, wishing to observe their oath and the fealty due to God and to him, send greeting and due service with all reverence and honour. ” Whereas by many proofs it appears that certain of those who surround you have suggested to your lordship many falsehoods about us, intending thereby all ‘possible ill, not only to us, but also to you and all your realm, be it known to your Excellency that we wish, with all due fidelity towards you, to preserve the health and safety of your person with all our might, purposing as far as in us lies to put down those who are enemies not only to us, but to you and your whole realm. May it please you to believe nothing different; for we and ours will always be found faithful.
We, Simon de Montfort, Earl of Leicester, and Gilbert de Clare, at the request of the others, for ourselves and them, have fixed our seals to these presents.”
And Henry’s reply:
“Henry, by the grace of God, &c., to Simon de Montfort and Gilbert de Clare and their accomplices. “”Whereas by the war and general disturbance in our realm raised by you, as well as the fires and other outrages, it appears manifestly that you have not kept the fealty which is due to us ; nor have you in anything cared for the safety of our person, in that you have heavily oppressed the nobles and others our liegemen who clave constantly to their allegiance, and moreover purpose to oppress them to the utmost of your power, as you have declared in your letter to us we consider their grievance to be our grievance, and their enemies to be ours, especially as the aforesaid liegemen stand by us loyally to preserve us against your disloyalty. “We care not for your protection nor love, but defy you as being our enemies and theirs.”
Followed by Edward’s (and Richard of Cornwall):
“Richard, by the grace of God King of the Romans, always august, and Edward, first-born son of the illustrious King of England, and all the other barons and nobles of the King of England, who adhere constantly to sincere faith and works of loyalty, to Simon de Montfort and Gilbert de Clare, and the others, all and several, who are accomplices of their perfidy.
“From the letter which you have sent to our most dear lord the King of England, we have learned that we are defied by you, although your words have been sufficiently proved in hostile acts, such as the burning of our property, and devastation of our goods. We therefore wish you to know that you are defied by us, all and severally, as public enemies, and that henceforth we will labour, wherever we may have the chance, for the destruction of your goods and persons. As regards the false charge which you bring against us, that we give no true nor faithful counsel to our lord the King, you no way speak the truth. And if you, Lords Simon de Montfort and Gilbert de Clare, wish to assert the same in the court of our lord the King, we are ready to procure you safe conduct to come to the said court, and to declare, by some one our equal in nobility and birth, the proof of our innocence, and your falsehood as faithless traitors.”
Fantastic!
Here is today’s Facebook Note.
Well, Demon=Spawn continues to have a sadistic sense of timing; he killed the mouse yesterday, so I had to rush out to buy a new one today. Tristan is wandering around like a lost soul; I suspect he misses Chelsea, too. And thank God for modern medicine; my doctor prescribed enough pain meds to get me through the weekend until my chiropractor comes back tomorrow. Imagine how dreadful life was for people in our MA–they had such limited ways to ease pain. Of course anti-biotics weren’t even discovered until the 20th century; my parents grew up in an age without them. No, as much as I love writing about the MA, I would not have wanted to live back then.
Nan Hawthorne’s Today in Medieval History reports that on this day in 1567, Mary, Queen of Scots, made her ill-fated third marriage to the Earl of Bothwell. The film with Vanessa Redgrave as Mary and Glenda Jackson as Elizabeth is one of the best in the genre; I highly recommend it. And as I’ve mentioned before, there are two excellent novels about Elizabeth, Susan Kay’s Legacy and Margaret George’s Elizabeth I. Margaret also has a well written and well researched novel about Mary. Also today in history, Heloise of Heloise and Abelard fame died in 1164. She was a remarkable woman, more admirable than her lover, IMHO. She appears occasionally as a character in Sharan Newman’s wonderful mystery series set in 12th century France; Sharan’s novels also offer us a glimpse of a hidden world–the life of Jews in the MA.
Ken, thank you so much for posting those marvelous letters. When you are addressing your opponents as “accomplices in perfidy,” there is nowhere to go but down!
Sharon, I just read about Chelsea–I’m so sorry. I’ve gone through that with some of my dogs and cats too and know that even though the decision is best for the pet, it’s always difficult and sad.
I’ve been very lucky with my back, but many years ago I had a bout of severe pain that just wouldn’t go away. I decided to go to a physical therapist before going the MD route. I was given a series of exercises that I diligently applied and was pretty much pain free and mobile within a week. Interestingly, one of the exercises that helped me the most was a Yoga position called something to the Sun (don’t remember it exactly). I think those encouraging you to do Yoga are giving you good advice. The best thing about it is there’s no downside if you do the exercises slowly and only as much as you can.
As the daughter of a Yoga instructor, I would definitely encourage you to take a look at it, it can be very beneficial.
I am definitely looking into yoga once I am “back in shape,” Beth. Thank you for your sympathy for Chelsea, Joan. I had her for nine years, so the house does seem empty without her–even if I do have a now 90 lb shepherd taking up a lot of room. I’m looking forward to your interview on my blog; I am sure it will generate a lot of interest in the new book.
Here is today’s Facebook post.
Here is a link to a review of the Showtime series, The Borgias. It is a take-no-prisoners review, but the most entertaining ones usually are. And thanks to Nan Hawthorne’s Today in Medieval History for letting me know that on May 17, 1536, Anne Boleyn’s brother and four other scapegoats were executed. http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2011/may/16/those-bad-borgias/
What a horribly biased and incorrect review. I found numerous historical inaccuracies in it, and many of the assertions utterly laughable. I could spend the next 24 hours just pointing out all the inaccuracies and incorrect assumptions made in that review.
I hope you don’t mind Sharon, but I don’t want people to get the wrong idea about The Borgias from that article, so I want to repost my rebuttal here:
————-
Speaking of High Pretentions, this review has the Highest Pretentions I’ve ever seen!
For starters, before you start condemning something for historical accuracy, you’d better make damn sure your own review is historically accurate. Niccolo Machiavelli was never an advisor to Cesare Borgia, he was Secretary for the Florentine Chancellory, during which tenure one of his many assignments was ambassador to the Papal court from 7th October 1502 to 18th January 1503, during which time he met and observed Cesare’s methods as a ruler.
Secondly your dig that Neil Jordan “apparently failed to notice the birth order of the four Borgia children” comes across as petty and small, and on top of that completely backfires, as it is well known among historians that there is a questionmark over the birth dates of Juan and Cesare and which one was the elder. Even if the birth order was certain, which it isn’t, I think you full well that Jordan didn’t “fail” to read up on the birth order, but rather made a decision about the birth order whether or not that decision matched up with the facts. Also, you “apparently failed to notice” that Rodrigo Borgia had more than four children – he had three more whose mother’s identity is uncertain, and likely Laura, the daughter of his mistress Giulia Farnese, was also his child.
“In this telling, men, for the most part, are skanky creeps, women either madonnas or Jezebels.” Wrong. Every single characterisation is subtle and sophisticated. No one in the series is either wholly good or wholly bad. Amongst the male characters, even Giovanni Sforza, who is actually abusive initially, attempts to convey some kind of gratitude and regret to Lucrezia, and even the “psychotic boy invested with too much power”, Alfonso of Naples is shown as vulnerable and uncertain upon the death of his father. Juan Borgia, whose character is a self-absorbed, inept fool with very little regard for anyone other than himself, balks at murdering a friend, desires to see his sister happy, and tries to do his duty in battle when crunch time comes round, and shows glimmers of decency. Meanwhile, characters like Cesare Borgia and Cardinal della Rovere struggle to do the right thing and hold onto their moral standards in a brutal and messy world. Amongst the women the same is true. Lucrezia Borgia seems like sweetness and light at first but even in the first episode she knows that her father is buying his way into the Papacy, and as the series progresses she becomes more manipulative and dances back and forth between the morally questionable and the morally upstanding. Characters such as Giulia Farnese, Vannozza dei Cattanei, Sancia of Naples and Ursula Bonadeo also walk this line. Sancia for example has no qualms about having an affair with her husband’s brother, but at the same time she resolves to treat her husband with kindness. Ursula begs Cesare to liberate her from an unhappy marriage, and has an affair with him, but when she learns that he was responsible for her husband’s murder, she is horrified.
“Gross helpings of cable-television ultra-violence” and “a fair amount of sex by US standards” – clearly you’ve been watching a different show to me. There is a sprinkling of gory scenes here and there, but equally a fair bit of the time violence occurs and its gory particulars are not revealled to the viewer. Even when the gore does occur, it happens as a plot point, and not as pointless gratuitousness, and the camera nevers lingers too long. If you think The Borgias is gory and ultra-violent, you clearly haven’t seen HBO’s Rome. Or the majority of Hollywood action movies and horro flicks from the past 10 years. As for the sex, it’s positively tame. Nothing explicit is ever shown, and again, frequently such scenes are at least partially obscured by dim lighting or translucent drapes. It’s certainly nowhere near the level of sex that was in The Tudors, which was patently gratuitous, explicit, and regularly plopped down just for the heck of it when it had no purpose in the plot whatsoever.
As for the miscasting, I respectfully disagree. So, Irons should be della Rovere and Feore should be Cardinal Sforza… on the basis of their physicality?! I see. So, it’s more important that a potential actor look like the character they’re meant to portray than be able to act like the character they’re meant to portray. Shoddy reasoning at it’s finest. Granted, you do provide another reason why Irons is apparently miscast – he lacks Latin fire. Except that’s just a stereotype of Italians, an exaggeration with little real-world basis. I don’t know how many actual Italians you know, but not every single one of them is a loud, hearty, brimming with gusto type. Personally, Rodrigo Borgia always struck me as an underhanded ambitious schemer, when needs be as subtle and sinuous as a snake. As for Johnny Depp replacing Francois Arnaud, I cannot think of a worse miscasting. Depp’s face is far too well known. There comes a point when the big-name Hollywood stars become so famous and their filmography so long that the performances blur into one another and start to gain a generic similarity to one another, and suddenly the audience feels like they’re watching the actor not the character. And I think it’s debatable whether or not Depp could carry the role. Jordan has hit the jackpot with Francois Arnaud – a fresh face who brings no preconceptions to the screen for the audience, but who can actually act and pull the performance out of the bag. Arnaud pitches perfectly this conflicted character with the capacity to be shockingly brutal but also unusually compassionate in his own time.
Again, you need to do yoru research before you slam the series for not shooting in Italy. Quote Neil Jordan from an interview on 11th May: “Hungary isn’t ideal either but they have great long summers. Obviously Italy would be the ideal but unfortunately there is no television co-production deal between the Italian government and other countries.”
As for the “(comparative) historical accuracy” of Fontana’s show, it actually changes far more major facts than Neil Jordan’s The Borgias, and in my opinion is much more inaccurate. Cesare attempting suicide? Murdering his own baby son? Giulia attacked and her face disfigured? Cesare raped by Marcoantonio Colonna?! If that’s not blatant lurid sensationalism and disregard of historical accuracy, I don’t know what is.
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You tell’em!
this is a great site, “what a Pollite Bollicking That Was”
Lol, what can I say? I am just sick and tired that the majority of the critic’s reaction to The Borgias has been negative, and it was about time someone fought the corner of this series. Many of the accusations levelled at it are simply unjustified (as in where the above reviewer failed to get her facts right), and other times I really do wonder if they’re watching a different show to me! I love it – and as an historian as well, I’m prepared to say that. Of course it’s not 100% historically accurate, no media recreation of history ever is, but it’s close and in my opinion keeps all the key facts intact. I guess you can’t please all of the people all of the time – I’ve read opposing negative reviews where some people have complained about their being too much violence and not enough history, and then the very next negative review complains that the show is ponderous and boring!
Wow Beth, what a well crafted rebuttal! I agree with you, “The Borgias” is a good series and it deserves better.
Beth, love your rebuttal, and especially your opening salvo: “Speaking of High Pretentions, this review has the Highest Pretentions I’ve ever seen!”
Well, to be honest I think the website people have decided not to let my rebuttal through – because when I wrote it there was only one comment on the article and now there are several – meaning that other people’s criticism or support of the article had been let through but mine hasn’t. I guess they just can’t handle a well-crafted rebuttal from someone who, as an historian, is actually able to point out where they themselves made glaring historical errors in the article.
I thank you all for your kind words, I never expected this kind of response! As I say, I am simply sick and tired of supposedly professional critics slagging off the series and getting their facts wrong! I read one critic who implied that the only people who would like The Tudors (the earlier show that is loosely affiliated with The Borgias) would be “panting teenagers” who would only tune in for the sex and wouldn’t care about the history. I was so insulted that time that I wrote in back then too, and they even printed my letter in next week’s magazine! I mean, honestly… I’m an historian. I like history. In my spare time it should be no surprise that I look for historical based entertainment, whether that be in books, on tv or in the cinema. I tune in for two things – the history, and a decent story. Now, as Sharon and many of you will probably know, too often we’ll sit through a film or tv series and end up muttering with outrage to the person next to us about how the history has been utterly butchered and what we’re seeing barely resembles the facts or lives up to our imaginations. I know I do. So whenever I find an historical-based tv show or film that is actually GOOD, that is a really rare event for me. Sure, it’s still not going to be perfect – even ROME, which I think is truly the best historical based series I’ve ever seen, had its inaccuracies – but as long as it’s close and usually detailed and up to scratch, as long as it doesn’t mangle the history by changing anything major, as long as it is done WELL – great plotlines, amazing acting, attentive costuming and sets – I can get past the little inaccuracies. As a notoriously picky historian, it’s really quite a feat for me to like a historical-based show and not be irritated with it. It baffles me that people would slag off The Borgias, and not even get their own facts right in the process, when there have been so many truly awful historical-based shows and films over the years and in my opinion The Borgias rates among the best I’ve ever seen, one of the few to have decent accuracy and great performances and storylines to boot!
Of course I don’t mind your rebuttal, Beth! Part of the fun of having a blog is that we get to exchange opinions like this.
And on this date in 1152, Henry and Eleanor were wed in Poitiers, just two months after the annulment of her marriage to the French king. So this is a very significant day for historians, lovers of history and historical novelists, of course!
Ah, and I see they have finally let the rebuttal through! Hurrah for free speech and debate! I used a nom de plume, as I never give out my email on a website I intend to visit only once to comment and then never come back to, but it is indeed up.
Thank you very much Sharon. I thought you would feel that way. That’s my end of it though. No doubt someone will come along trying to stir the pot, but that is my sole and one off response.
A very significant day! And don’t forget – tomorrow is the day of Anne Boleyn’s execution, so two significant days in a row!
@Ken, May 15: Thank you for posting the letters, as you said: Fantastic. Actually, sounds a lot like modern legalese; I am in the process of selling my house and some of the contract paragraphs read just like those letters from the battlefields.
@Beth What a passionate rebuttle; whoever will direct Sharon’s movie better do their homework ‘-)
Here is today’s Facebook Note.
We just can’t keep those Tudors from infiltrating our ranks. But I couldn’t not mention that Anne Boleyn was executed today in 1536. Whatever arguments there are about the woman, I don’t think there are any historians today who believe she was guilty of those trumped-up charges. I always thought the Lord Mayor of London was incredibly brave to say he believed she was innocent. My favorite Anne Boleyn novel is Norah Lofts’s The Concubine. I remember, too, that the BBC production The Six Wives of Henry VIII was very well done. And in Susan Kay’s brilliant Legacy, she shows how deeply traumatized the young Elizabeth was by her mother’s judicial murder. There are any number of websites devoted to Anne; one of this best can be found here. http://www.theanneboleynfiles.com/anne-boleyn-the-great-whore/1142/
Echo is trying very hard to get a young shepherd named Shiva to her new home on Saturday. I know several of you are helping out, and bless you for that. They are still shy of these two legs. Maybe some of you could post this on your Facebook pages if you live in the vicinity of these runs or know people who do? Jeanmarie is the contact at jgoday@comcast.net or 603-930-0792
Emporia, VA to Richmond, VA.
Approx 67 Miles 1 Hour 15 min
Leave Time 10:45 AM
Arrive Time 12:00 PM
****NEEDED****
Fredericksburg VA To Wheaton MD
Approx. 66 Miles 1 Hour 20 Min
Leave Time 1:20 PM
Arrive Time 2:40 PM
Curiously, the inside covers of Philippa Gregory’s most recent novels on the Plantagenets claim that she is “an established historian” or the Tudor period even before she wrote TOBG, and in her Author’s Note of The Other Boleyn Girl she states that “Anne was clearly guilty of at least one murder… Anne was accused of adultery with George at their trials and his wife gave evidence against them both. Most people think the trial was a show trial, but it is an interesting accusation. Anne had three miscarriages by the time of her trial, and she was not a woman to let something like sin or crime stand in her way–she was clearly guilty of one murder. I think if she had thought that Henry could not bear a son she was quite capable of finding someone to father a child on her. If she thought that, then George would have been the obvious choice.” Both quotes taken directly from Gregory’s work.
To quote one of Sharon’s favourite quotes about the responsibility that historical fiction authors have in regards to accuracy and objectivity: “Do not defame the dead.”
First of all, I’m finally back from my vacation. It was exhausting, but quite fun, and I must thank everyone again for all of their recommendations.
Second, Beth, your rebuttal was amazing. I loved it. It was perfect, the way you addressed each point and showed the problem with it.
Lastly, a few missing occurrences: Edmund, Earl of Rutland, brother to Edward IV and Richard III was born on the 17th, Stephen II Count of Blois, father to King Stephen, died on the 17th in the Second Battle of Ramla, and today, the second Battle of Lincoln took place during the First Baron’s Rebellion, in which forces under William Marshal defeated the French under the Comte of Perche, killing him in the process.
Koby, we have missed you! I hope you had a wonderful time on your vacation. Is your school year over yet? Most American college semesters are coming to a close.
I agree with Koby, Beth; a nice rebuttal to Ms. Gregory. I cannot imagine saying flatly that Anne was “guilty of one murder.” When there is no conclusive evidence for something, only speculation, a novelist (and a historian) has to make that clear in fairness to readers. We can say something is “likely” to have happened, but absent that proof, we cannot say it for a certainty. So do I think Richard III murdered his nephews? No, I do not. Can I say that for a 100% certainty? No….all I can say is that “my” Richard didn’t do it! Of course as novelists, we do have to take liberties at times, for we need to fill in the blanks. I couldn’t very well have written Sunne without offering an explanation for the disappearance of the Little Princes in the Tower, after all. My means of keeping my conscience clear is to use an Author’s Note. And as I’ve gotten more obsessive about historical accuracy as I aged, you all may have noticed that my ANs get longer and longer and longer. Lionheart is the champion by far, at a hefty 11 pages!
Beth, I posted your comment about Philippa Gregory and Anne Boleyn on my Facebook page, as they were having a lively discussion about Anne yesterday and I know they will find this very interesting.
Why, thank you, all!
Without wishing to cause trouble, I think I can safely say that Philippa Gregory is not my favourite historical novellist. If only she admitted in her Author’s Note that she changes so much and that some of the content is pure whimsy, then I could probably say “Okay, fair enough, you’ve admitted to it, and the books aren’t my cup of tea, so that’s that”. But, and this is what truly baffles me, she instead makes all sorts of truly absurd claims in the Author’s Notes, and then whoever is responsible for the author bio’s on the inside cover of her novels has the audacity to say things like she’s “an established historian” and she’s “committed to complete historical accuracy”. That just boggles my mind! No. Just no. As an historian, I can safely say that Ms Gregory is not an historian and she doesn’t seem to me to be committed to historical accuracy.
Also, attempting to continue being polite here, I rather find that her writing is kind of basic and simplistic, and often the plot and the history gets simplified as well. You know how the “Twilight” series is peppered with these weird, awkward sounding, clumsy, clunky sentences because they’re poorly constructed? I find those kind of poorly constructed sentences all the time in PG. Maybe I have high standards, but yes I would say that PG falls below the standards that I look for in hsitorical fiction. I guess if you want something that’s simplistic and basically just fluff… and seems sometimes to be unusually biased against certain historical people, and frequently disregards history to the point of defamation of said historical people. I used a good analogy the other day when describing it to a friend. I said that PG is like the airport novel of the historical fiction world. Lightweight stuff that will keep you distracted on the flight, but so silly that you just know you’ll leave it behind at the gate when you arrive.
What really gets me about PG though is when I hear people calling her the “queen of historical fiction”, or even citing her works as fact in essays. This is what annoys me. Although I like to believe that there are intelligent people in the world, the sad fact is that a heck of a lot of people aren’t that bright, or are simply ignorant, and so when they read something like PG, which then has an Author’s Note like that, they believe it’s absolute gospel! I mean I am getting really concerned that The Other Boleyn Girl has set back perceptions of Anne about 200 years! We had just got to the point where people could view her as a flawed human being, neither saint nor harpy, and now most people I speak to seem to think that she’s some evil, bitchy shrew again, and they tell me they got that idea from PG! The lady who runs the Anne Boleyn Files website says that she frequently gets emails from people asking her “why are you defending that horrid bitch?” This is where I really firmly believe that historical fiction authors have a responsibility to treat the history with respect and objectivity – even if you hate a certain person from history, not to let it taint your work – and to at the very least be honest in the Author’s Note and admit to what facts were changed and so on. For me, PG does not meet that responsibility, and her claims that her work is accurate – when as an historian I know for a FACT to what degree she changes things – almost looks like, to me, she is trying to influence public perception to fall in line with her own love and hate lists of history. It’s also a shame because I see so many people praising her novels sky high, and there are really fantastic historical fiction authors out there – both much more skilled as writers and far more historically accurate – who are enormously overlooked and barely have a handful of reviews to their works.
If I might be permitted to give a shout out, for me personally as a reader, and professionally as an Egyptologist, Pauline Gedge will always be the queen of historical fiction. She’s is very little known, and undeservedly so. Her accuracy and attention to the history is stunning, and her writing is staggeringly high quality.
Interesting information about PG. What about Alison Weir? I picked up a copy of one of her books in Waterstone when I was in Hampshire. I thought it was good, but is she on the accurate list?
Alison Weir is on my “treat-with-caution” list. She’s not actually an historian, something which I never knew myself until just a few years ago, but an enthusiastic amateur. Dont’ get me wrong, for someone who is actually not a professional historian, I think her books are amazing, the details she digs up are mind-boggling. However, there are occasional omissions and errors, and one time quite recently she made a big gaffe with her sources… there was a well publicised article about it which for some reason I can’t find at the moment… someone on GoodReads will remind me of it, I’m sure, as I’ve put the call out.
But since she’s a very detailed author, unless you were a specialist you could easily miss these few errors and omissions. That said… Alison Weir was one of the first non-fics I picked up when I was about 12 years old, and I remember even now, it was her study of Eleanor of Aquitaine. However, I must just add, her style is rather dry and sometimes when she gets into long account lists of money spent on various items, it can get rather dull and I wouldn’t expect anyone to be able to remember those lists. I passed EoA off to my father when I’d done with it and he couldn’t finish it because it was so dry. Even I can’t remember those lists that well. Lists such as how many of one type of poultry was eaten by the court in a year, that sort of thing.
So, my advice must be – do read her books if you want to, though beware they are quite dry, however just be cautious. Don’t come away believing that every single word is 100% accurate – check out what other people have written too, and corroborate the facts, preferrably with an actual specialist. I would recommend Weir as a starting point, but not the final word.
Found it! Here – Weir’s gaffe with sources in her non-fic about Anne Boleyn’s fall:
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/non-fiction/article6894033.ece
Ah, forgive my frequency of posting tonight, but I have located the review of Philippa Gregory’s The Other Boleyn Girl as written by the late Irene Rheinwald, a specialist in the history of Anne Boleyn, and who, I feel, really said it all about Gregory’s treatment of the history.
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Upfront, I must confess: I never read popular fiction, don’t care for romance novels, and love classical and modern literature. I read ‘War and Peace’ at age eleven, and as an adolescent, devoured Balzac, Zola, Galsworthy, Hugo, the ‘Odyssey’ and ‘Iliad’, Emily Bronte, and a great deal of nonfiction, mostly history.
I read TOBG out of curiosity, being a historian (specialties: Anne Boleyn’s early years in the Renaissance courts of Margaret of Austria/France and how they affected her notions of queenship/monarchy; her lost portraits – reassessing a lost image). After forty years of formal (advanced degrees) and informal research, I feel compelled to write a review.
What a disaster: I have no idea how this travesty was foisted upon an unsuspecting public with such extraordinary success.
Let me begin by stating PG is a technically impoverished ‘writer’. TOBG is rife with errors: grammatically incorrect sentences, missing commas, changes in point of view from first to third person omniscient; characters exit scenes in which they did not appear in the first place. Moreover, the ‘style’ – if one can call it that – is simplistic, cliché ridden, and without distinction. Modern idioms; telling, not showing; passive writing – all sins in ‘Creative Writing 101’, which most learn in grade school.
Regarding character: PG resorts to stereotypical and old fashioned views of women: the bad (assertive/dark) girl meets a horrific end, and the good (passive/fair) girl is rewarded with true love. All rather ridiculous. What we now call the “Madonna/whore” complex. Mary Boleyn is the perfect lover, mother, wife, even tempered, wise, but delightfully sweet and alluringly innocent; whereas Anne Boleyn is a vicious, arrogant, not very bright, sour, manipulative, shallow, vulgar female dog, given to physical altercations. The latter’s professions of being in love with Henry Percy? Impossible to believe.
Katherine of Aragon, too, is portrayed as a one-dimensional character, noble and proud. Cliché. Curiously, Henry VIII is passive and easily duped by any pretty face; reduced to little more than a plot device, without a distinct personality.
Beyond the above, I am deeply troubled by PG’s deliberate distortion of history, and even more so by her constant insistence of erring on the side of historical facts, not fiction. This Anne Boleyn is utterly unrecognizable to me as a historian – what a slanderous, vicious, assault on a dead person. Like anyone, Anne Boleyn was a three dimensional character: brilliant, intellectual, an able politician, exceptionally loyal to family and friends, dignified, highly educated, elegant, culturally accomplished, known for her cheerful and spirited nature. But under stress, as during the protracted annulment and as queen, became short tempered, aggressive, overly intense and passionate.
Of Mary Boleyn we know virtually nothing. However, PG (in a video interview) confessed to admiring her for bravely following her heart and marrying for love over her horrible family’s objections. A modern perspective, a misreading of sixteenth century court mores and standards of behaviour – something she often does. PG claims there is no solid evidence for Mary’s reputation for promiscuity at the French court, which I find bizarre. François I recalled Mary as “una grandissima ribalda, et infame sopra tutte”, which PG downplays/denies. Anne Boleyn and the family assisted Mary as much as possible, but her rash behaviour was perceived as a major embarrassment. Henry VIII was not amused to have, as brother in law, someone from the obscure gentry.
Other errors:
The Boleyn – Howard family never pushed either sister into Henry VIII’s bed; horrifying thought. Boleyns always MARRIED well, and virginity was paramount – any whisper of ‘reputation’ decreased an entire family’s stock. Hence, Mary marrying William Carey, a minor noble after her disgrace in France, and it being highly improbable, even impossible, Anne Boleyn consummated her relationship with Henry Percy. Too great a risk for someone with great presence of mind.
Anne Boleyn was the younger of the sisters, born c. 1501; Mary was born c. 1499 or 1500. Evidence? Anne Boleyn’s first letter in French, assisted by Semmonet/Symmonet, a male tutor in the household of Margaret of Austria, which is in a mature hand; Lord Hunsdon, Mary Boleyn’s grandson, supplicated Elizabeth I for the Ormonde title on the basis of Mary being the elder – to which Elizabeth, significantly, did not object.
Henry Carey was not Henry VIII’s son, born several years after Mary’s affair with Henry VIII; Catherine Carey, the elder child, might have been Henry VIII’s, but it is highly unlikely. The affair has been pushed further back into the early 1520s, shortly after her marriage (1520).
Anne Boleyn never “stole” Mary’s son, but rather, arranged a good education for him after his father’s death in 1528. The paltry £100 stipend Anne Boleyn obtained for Mary is actually closer to £50,000 today. Hardly poor. And Stafford also received an income.
Catherine Carey did not attend Anne Boleyn before the latter’s death.
Perhaps most disconcerting is PG’s reliance on Dr. Retha Warnicke’s legitimate historical revisionism, which has not passed the test of time. Revisionist history is best left to scholarly debate, not used as the basis of a bodice ripper romance novel. To her credit, Dr. Warnicke has vocally and publicly distanced herself from PG.
George Boleyn, an avowed homosexual, in love with a man, lusting after his sister, committing incest? What? There is no evidence for a deformed foetus, incest, witchcraft, etc. in the historical record.
I looked at her ‘bibliography’: shoddy. Outdated (Bruce – 1972), controversial (Warnicke), negative (Weir – not a historian, and unreliable), general and/or anachronistic works. Elton and Bindoff? I remember these as a first year undergrad. I suspect she skimmed the sources, and not actually read them. PG is no historian, despite protesting otherwise. Where is Dr. Eric Ives (1986)? Hugh Paget’s watershed article (1981)? Only secondary sources, no primary?
As for the charges, adultery by a queen was not a capital offense/treason: Anne Boleyn was accused of plotting the King’s death, to ostensibly marry one of her ‘lovers’ after. These charges were deliberately constructed to impugn her moral character.
To give weight to these ridiculous charges, as PG does, is utterly irresponsible. Cromwell and Anne Boleyn, both able politicians, were engaged in a bitter struggle over Church revenues and foreign policy. She would have struck him down, had he not struck first. The charges were sloppy and concocted in great haste – none of the dates and places matched; Henry VIII’s behaviour remained curiously passive throughout, an element that puzzles historians even now. Not even Chapuys, the Imperial ambassador and Anne Boleyn’s sworn enemy, believed a single charge.
“Most people think the trial was a show trial, but it is an interesting accusation. Anne had three miscarriages by the time of her trial, and she was not a woman to let something like sin or crime stand in her way – she was clearly guilty of one murder. I think if she had thought that Henry could not bear a son she was quite capable of finding someone to father a child on her. If she thought that, then George would have been the obvious choice.”
How grammatically incomprehensible! Three miscarriages? Three pregnancies. Not let sin or crime stand in her way? Slander; Anne Boleyn was deeply religious, in the New Faith. Clearly guilty of one murder? Not a shred of evidence. “If Henry could not bear a son” [sic]? Did I miss that possibility in biology? George, the obvious choice?
Why this hatred of Anne Boleyn? Is PG a Catholic in the tradition of Sander, the one who created the six fingers myth during Elizabeth’s reign? Well, she at least did not include that, for which deserves one star.
Irene Rheinwald
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I couldn’t get past the beginning of TOBG. Since I’m not that familiar with the historical details, my main problem with PG’s writing is that I find her characters poorly drawn. Beth, while I agree with you about her writing skills, I have to blame the publisher too. Aren’t they paying their editors more than they’d make working at McDonalds?
I for one can never forgive Alison Weir for relying on Thomas More when she skewered Richard III for the murders of the princes in the tower. The only good thing I can think of regarding Weir’s book is that seems to have produced Bertram Fields excellent rebuttal in ROYAL BLOOD.
I don’t know, Joan! But I sure do wonder from time to time. There are a couple of authors I’ve read where I’ve noticed that their first or first big novel feels a lot tighter and sharper than their succeeding works, which seem to go downhill. Philippa Gregory is one of them, and Jean M Auel is another one. Although I disliked TOBG, to me it did feel tighter and sharper than succeeding novels such as The Virgin’s Lover and The Other Queen. And, it seems really strange to me, this sharpness and relative competency in comparison to some truly atrocious writing later down the line. Now, I don’t know for sure, but I have the strongest feeling that these authors, when they were still unknown, had The Other Boleyn Girl and The Clan of the Cave Bear tightened up for them by an editor’s input, but when those books became massively successful the publishing house gave them more freedom as the big name authors who they don’t want to lose because they will now bring in a lot of money based solely on their name being on the cover of a new book. So they give these authors creative control, and the authors decide unwisely that they don’t want anyone tampering with their original vision in any way, so they reject having their work edited. Then it gets sent out, printed, and put out in the world when it really needed an editor’s red pen, and so it produces this curious effect where a big name author’s first book seems so sharp and their later books you just can’t believe how sloppy they are.
I don’t think that’s fair on the readers, personally. I can understand an author wishing to preserve their original vision, but sometimes you just need an editor even if you don’t like what they say. It isn’t fair to put out sub-standard books, and the publishing house won’t stop you because they know they can rake in the money just by slapping your name on something, so it’s the readers that feel like they’ve been cheated out of their money and are angry that a work has been put to press when it clearly isn’t up to standard. There is a huge outrage right now on Amazon UK about Auel’s latest book, I can tell you.
An author, who shall remain nameless, talked to me recently about the kinds of changes that their editor had insisted upon before letting the book go to press. I have to say – thank goodness for that editor, because some of the ideas were so flat out absurd and never would have worked.
Sharon, maybe you can shed light on this… everyone remaining wholly nameless of course, have you ever heard of any cases where an author has been able to take the option of rejecting editorial input after they’ve had a massively successful novel? Have you heard of that going on? It’s the only thing I can think of to explain the drastic difference between such sharp debuts and such sloppy sequels, and I feel absolutely certain that it must happen. Otherwise, as Joan mentions above, what on earth are the editors doing?! Not being paid enough? Well, whether or not you feel like you want to comment on that, I’d like to ask how you feel about letting an editor get their hands on your work? I’m assuming that you’re probably successful enough that you may have been offered something like creative control before, but I can readily imagine that you would have refused.
Thank you, Beth, for these excellent sources and criticisms. I cannot agree with you more. Making a historical character a one-dimensional character is sin enough enough in my book (and perhaps when I write my review of To Defy a King I will expand more on this point), but historical inaccuracy in a historical novel is far greater, and one I can only very rarely forgive.
In any case, today, Thomas Howard, 2nd Duke of Suffolk and son of John Howard, who served under Edward IV, Richard III, Henry VII [VIII] and Henry VIII [IX], (he fought and was wounded for York at the battles of Barnet, Bosworth Field, and then for Tudor at Flodden) died.
Oh, I agree, Koby. I don’t mind little changes – as long as they are divulged, and written well of course – I obviously can’t get on board with it if it isn’t believable, I need to feel like it could be at least plausible and it needs to be authentically and not absurdly. Big changes are something more of a problem, especially when not divulged in an author’s note. Because then one starts to ask oneself why not represent the past accurately if you’re going to write about something that really happened? And also big changes have a real danger of being defamatory to past people.
Also, I apologise for banging on about the issue but I consider to be the most heinous crime of all including magical and fantastical elements – unless the novel is upfront marketed as historical FANTASY and not historical fiction. If it’s historical fiction, in my book it has to at least abide by real world rules. I cannot abide the inclusion of magic in what is supposed to be a real world historical setting. This is something that Philippa Gregory has done too, sorry to mention her name again – her book about Elizabeth Woodville has Elizabeth using magical powers to win battles for her husband. I have three gripes with this:
1) It detracts from the real world sacrifice of those who fought and died on that day, and those who secured victory, by turning it into the wave of wand.
2) Whether or not you like Elizabeth, being accused of witchcraft in her own lifetime was something she had to suffer through. She was not a witch and you can bet that she did not enjoy such accusations. It seems like an insult to the historical woman to perpetuate the idea of “oh yes, she really was a witch”, bordering on defamation.
3) It seems dangerous to the readership if you ask me. Now, as I mentioned before, I live in hope of an intelligent fellow readership, but I am often disappointed in this hope. I cannot count the numbers of times I have heard over the years just plain ignorant people coming out with statements like they think magic might have happened in the past, because it was a really long time ago. People actually think that the laws of physics might have been different. This is absolutely characteristic of the sort of widespread ignorance about history, globally today. I have watched some crackpot joe public turn up and argue with my former professors over whether or not the Egyptians “used magic to float their obelisks into place”. Unless the novel is CLEARLY marketed as historical fantasy, magic has no place in an historical fiction novel. It isn’t accurate, but worse than that it is encouraging and perpetuating the continued misunderstanding and ignorance surrounding history that is prevalent amongst so many people that I am scared to think of it. I like to hope that people are smart, but unfortunately a lot of people think “oh, some author wrote it in a book, so it must be true”. To me this is the absolute cardinal sin. It is no less than the subversion of fact, logic and reason, and replacing it with the spreading of ignorance, irrationality, and wild fear and hysteria. That is just plain WRONG, to me, and the one thing, if I had to choose, that I just will not tolerate.
Hi all. This is maybe a little OT, but I posted this on Sharon’s FB page and she suggested I repost it here since not everyone here is on FB. I’m trying to drum up some interest in an online historical fiction book club and thought you all might be a good place to start. 🙂 I was also reminded by another friend that Goodreads has some good groups, which I had totally forgotten about. What do you all think? Is that something that might be of interest? Or would it be cooler to do a smallish group just here or on FB somewhere? I was thinking it would kind of be more fun to do a “smaller” group here or FB just since we are all at least a little familiar with each other.
More importantly, and back on topic, thanks for a wonderful interview, Sharon and Anne! Queen By Right is on my to-read ASAP list. And yes, I am uptight enough to make a collection on my kindle of books to read ASAP. I’m a nerd. 🙂 This interview was terrific. It’s always so fascinating to read about the creative process for authors and get some behind the scenes glimpses. Have a great day!
Today, the First Battle of St Albans took place, where Duke Richard of York and the Earl Richard of Warwick defeated the Lancaster forces under Edmund Beaufort, Duke of Somerset, and Somerset, Henry Percy, Earl of Northumberland, and Thomas Clifford, 8th Baron de Clifford died, and Henry VI [VII] was captured.
Here is today’s Facebook Note.
Amazon has announced that its Kindle e-books are now outselling both its hardback and paperback books combined. I am not as upset about that as I once might have been, having become a Kindle convert recently myself. And e-books do give authors opportunities that were not available in the past. But as much as I like to read on my Kindle, I think it would be awful if e-books ever replaced “real books.” Ideally, these different formats ought to complement one another. But there is a quote in an article about a bid for Barnes and Noble that sent a chill up my spine. The article discusses plans to focus on the electronic in B & N stores at the expense of print, and a “consumer strategist” says: “You don’t want the old-fashioned bookstore customer who goes in and sits and reads a book for two hours. You want people going in there who are hungry for experience.” Am I being snarky to wonder if this guy ever reads himself?
On this date in 1155, the first Battle of St Albans was fought; the second occurred on February 17, 1461. And this date is often given as the day that Henry VI so conveniently passed on in the Tower of London. We’ve been talking recently about the obligations of historical novelists, and I explained that we can’t always say for an absolute certainty that something happened. For example, I can’t give an iron-clad guarantee that Richard III did not have his nephews killed; I can only tell you that “my” Richard didn’t do it. Sometimes historical figures are cooperative enough to die on center stage, like Richard I, Richard III, and Simon de Montfort. Sometimes they die in the shadows, so we have to add a “likely” to our depictions of their fate, as with Arthur, Edward II, and today’s subject, Henry VI. I think we can safely say, though, that poor Henry did not die of “melancholia.” I say “poor Henry” for not only was he a good argument against an inherited monarchy, he was a sad example of someone forced into a role for which he was utterly unsuited. I keep urging readers not to judge medievals by our standards of conduct, for that can make virtually every ruler I’ve written about seem like a homicidal maniac, including my favorite king, Henry II, and Saladin, who usually enjoys such good press that he comes across as a Kurdish version of St Francis of Assisi. But I always qualify this claim by excluding Henry VI, who surely boasted the cleanest conscience of any man to sit upon the English throne.
Anyway, here are the links to the stories about Amazon’s Kindle and the sale of Barnes and Noble.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/gaming.gadgets/05/19/kindle.outsells.books/index.html?hpt=Sbin
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43113929/ns/business-us_business/t/malones-barnes-noble-bid-bet-nook/from/toolbar
That quote sends a shiver down my spine, Sharon. The two sentences are oxymorons. Browsing real books in a book store, maybe sitting down and having a flick through, or buying your book and then sitting down with a hot drinks and reading it is one of the best experiences there is. NOT doing this is the exact opposite of being “hungry for experience”. What the consumer strategist means is that he wants people to come through the door and not be hungry for experience – ie, sitting down and enjoying a good book, which would be an experience – but in and out in a flash with as many purchases as possible. All this bozo cares about is turnover. He’s saying that he doesn’t want “loiterers” and that he only cares about getting people to hand over their money as fast as possible. Electronic sales achieve this faster – the transfer of text and money is made quickly, and none of that loitering business of customers actually carefully browsing or sitting down to enjoy their purchases, just BAM, in and out. Uncultured twit if you ask me.
It will be a sad day if electronic texts eradicate the printed word. As I said, something makes me feel uneasy about having my books up in the ether – like they’re only virtual or in my mind and I don’t really truly own them, I don’t feel assured that I can hold them or possess them at any moment I please.
Beth, one of my readers just told me that she is closing her bookstore because business is so bad. This is so sad. The loss of a bookstore is like a death.
That’s terrible, Sharon.
As I said, something about electronic books makes me feel uneasy. It feels like just so much light and air, and then where would we be if the technology failed us? On top of that it is squeezing out the printed word, and bookshops, which are monumentally important and significant. Thirdly, as an historian and archaeologist it worries me… we rely on material artefacts and surviving texts to tell us about what the past was like – having virtual books which aren’t physically real disturbs me because the written texts as artefacts will simply disappear into thin air, and there becomes a great danger that many of our great literary works will simply be lost. I worry about future historians struggling to understand why we had no books, and having such wonderful insights into our times lost to them because they were never physically real.
I’ve been greatly enjoying the discussion of historical fiction and am happy to know I’m not the only one who is irritated by authors who stray far afield from the facts in writing fiction. Yes, I understand this is fiction but still…
Another author who I have stopped reading is Carrolly Erickson – after reading her book The Last Wife in which Katharine Parr begins her affair with Thomas Seymour while Henry VIII was still alive. Sorry, that just did not come across as very plausible, especially after Kathryn Howard’s demise! Was disappointing, too, coming from an author who has a substantial academic background in history.
So, again, many thanks to all of you for sharing your recommendations on worthwhile HF reading! And to Sharon for showing folks how historical fiction is properly done :D.
I will truly go into mourning if “real books” become a thing of the past. I’ve just recently finished both Margaret George’s Elizabeth and Anne Easter Smith’s Queen by Right, courtesy of our public library but will be purchasing both books soon as they are worth owning. Only sorry that Anne’s book is not a hardcover.
Speaking of libraries, the tragedy in many communities these days is that libraries are facing cuts in funding that are impacting their ability to offer services. In the small town where I was raised, we didn’t have a bookstore but the library was were I learned to love history.
I know that my local library is going through the same thing. Our national government has imposed really harsh cuts on all public services, because of the economy. Our library’s opening hours have been severely slashed. I just hope it doesn’t close altogether. I rely on it a lot. After having had the unfortunate experience of buying a few hist fics that turned out to be wall-bangers, I now very rarely autobuy – Sharon is one of the very few authors whose quality and consistency in that quality of writing I will automatically buy – and so my new rule has been to read before I buy. That means I rely on my library for books that I am intrigued by but know nothing about and don’t want to risk my precious pennies on without finding out if they’re any good – read the library book first, buy if any good.
Sharon, I was unhappy to see the article on Barnes and Noble. What are we doing sliding back into the Dark Ages. No wonder so many young people aren’t familiar with so much literature. I enjoy browsing in a bookstore very much and would hate to think I would be stuck with a little computerized rendition of my slooooooooow computer!!!
I think we should all write to Barnes and Noble and let them know how important books are to us. Do you think that would help? I agree with Cindy, if they do away with books I will go into mourning, too.
Susanne, I can think of few things more frightening than the loss of books. Yes, e-books have advantages, which I’ve discussed before; Kindles are great for travel and I love the large font size option. But we need real books, print books, and the world would be a much poorer place without them. Sadly, I don’t think letters to Barnes and Noble would help that much. They will do whatever they think will gain them the greatest profit. Beth, library funding is being cut drastically over here, too. And at a time when people most need library resources. It is sad and scary.
Today, Henry V, Holy Roman Emperor, who married Empress Maude of England, died.
Sharon, the libraries here in Las Vegas have a bookstore in their building and it contains books that have been removed from the shelves for new editions and donations from the community. I think it is a great idea. You can go in and get a book for .50c or $1. and help the library as well.
@ Kristen Elizabeth: Greyt idea, I wonder if Sharon could put up a tab for this club on this, her website?
On the subject of libraries/librarians, here is a thought provoking blog article. http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2011/05/the-future-of-the-library.html
Britta, I would also be happy to make a page on my livejournal public for us to use, if that is easier as well.
Ah HAH! I knew I read somewhere that something interesting happened in history on my birthday, I just couldn’t find it for the longest time – I finally rediscovered it, and belated as I am I want to share it!
10th May 1499 – On this day at Blois Cesare Borgia married Charlotte d’Albret, mother of his only legitimate child, Louise Borgia, an ancestress of many lines still surviving today. Charlotte was reportedly beautiful, as well as being a rich heiress.
Thanks and I like your words very much!
Wow Beth, what a well crafted rebuttal! I agree with you, “The Borgias” is a good series and it deserves better.
Today, Henry V, Holy Roman Emperor, who married Empress Maude of England, died.
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This was far and away my favorite book written about Richard III, great stuff!
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