Well, being snowbound did produce some benefits. I was able to finish a key chapter at the siege of Acre. This was when Richard made his worst mistake, needlessly antagonizing the Duke of Austria, who had a personality just as prickly as Richard’s. I tried to warn him—Richard, you do not want to do this! But just as the teenagers in those horror films always insist upon going down alone into the basement, Lionheart forged ahead, paying no heed to me, a woman and a lowly scribe. Based on my experiences with Henry, Richard, and John, I’d say the Angevin males definitely could have benefited from some anger management classes. The trouble, of course, is that no one was willing to say “no” to a king, rather like athletes and rock stars today.
This was one of my chapters that reproduce like amoebae, splitting itself in half. This seems to happen a lot in my books. It looks like Lionheart is going to be a very long novel; I’m sure this comes as a great surprise, right? But so much was happening in this chapter—Richard’s clash with Duke Leopold, a bitter confrontation with the French king, Philippe, some sex, a political crisis resulting in a compromise that infuriated all sides, and a last-minute double-cross. So it really had to be two chapters. Especially since I wanted to take the readers on a tour of Acre with Joanna and Berengaria.
When I read novels about other eras, I love gritty and vivid details that make the time and place seem real for me. So I try to add this sort of descriptive phrasing in my own novels. I want my readers to feel the scorching heat of the Syrian sun. (They had three names for the Kingdom of Jerusalem, calling it Syria, the Holy Land, and Outremer). I want them to breathe in the scent from the soap-makers’ shops and the more pungent smells of horse manure, to marvel with the women at their first sight of a camel and their first taste of an “apple of paradise,” which we more prosaically call bananas. I want readers to share their surprise at the flat roofs and treeless terrain, to feel Philippe’s disgust when he finds a scorpion in his boot. Admittedly, none of this advances the plot line and it helps to explain why my books tend to be Moby-Dick-sized tomes. But it’s fun to write and—I hope—to read.
A friend of mine recently made an interesting observation about Richard’s queen, Berengaria. She thinks that readers today want their women characters to be assertive, charismatic, bold, and beautiful. In other words, women like Eleanor of Aquitaine. I was wondering if you agree with her on this, and if so, will this keep readers from fully embracing Berengaria? She had considerable courage; going on Crusade was not like a Club Med holiday, after all. Her life was at risk more than once, for she faced terrifying storms at sea, an alarming encounter with a Cypriot despot, a deadly disease that almost made her a widow after less than two months of marriage, and the constant dangers of life in a war zone. She would later show her courage again by fighting her brother-in-law John for her dower rights; not surprisingly, John treated her very shabbily, but she refused to back down. Her courage, though, was the quiet kind. She made no scenes, certainly not in public and probably not in private, either. She was not a royal rebel like her formidable mother-in-law. No scandals ever trailed in her wake, and she would never have thought to lead men against rebels in her husband’s absence as her sister-in-law later did.
We know surprisingly little about this young woman who became the queen-consort of the most powerful king in Christendom. Aside from her courage, we know she had a strong sense of duty and she was very pious. We know she came from a close-knit, loving family, the anti-Angevins, if you will. We do not know what she looked like, though if the skeleton discovered in the abbey at Epau is indeed hers, she was five feet in height. Nor do we even know her exact birth year, though Ann Trindade, the most reliable of Berengaria’s two biographers, makes a convincing case that she was born c. 1170. The most quoted comment about her appearance came from the snarky Richard of Devizes, who claimed she was “more prudent than pretty” and speculates that she “may have still been a virgin” when she and Richard sailed from Messina. Only he never laid eyes upon her. The chronicler Ambroise, who probably did, described her as “beautiful, with a bright countenance, the wisest woman, indeed, that one could hope to find anywhere.” The author of The Itinerarium Peregrinorum et Gesta Regis Ricardi, who also accompanied Richard on crusade, said that “attracted by her graceful manner and high birth, he (Richard) had desired her very much for a long time, since he was first Count of Poitou.” I rather doubt that she was Richard’s “beloved,” as Ambroise calls her; medieval marriages were matters of state, not the heart, and I suspect that Richard didn’t have a romantic bone in his body.
We do know that she managed to retain her dignity under trying circumstances; her husband’s infidelities were notorious enough to warrant a lecture from the saintly Bishop of Lincoln. We need to remember, though, that medieval women did not expect to find soul-mates in marriage as we do; they were more likely to find their greatest joy in their children, not their husbands. But the fact that her marriage to Richard produced no heirs meant that she’d failed in her primary duty as a queen, for in their world the wife was the one blamed, whether it was her fault or not. Sadly, she probably blamed herself, too, for this is what she would have been taught. Only once, though, are we given a glimpse of the woman behind the queen. According to the friend and biographer of St Hugh of Lincoln, upon learning of Richard’s death, the bishop detoured to Berengaria’s residence at Beaufort en Vallee, where he “calmed the grief” of the “sorrowing and almost broken-hearted widow.” Was she grieving for Richard? For what was or what might have been? For the precarious future she may have envisioned for herself without Richard’s protection? We have no way of knowing. She was a wife for only eight years, a widow for thirty-three, as she never remarried, unusual in itself, and when she was buried in the beautiful abbey she’d founded near Le Mans, she took her heart’s secrets to her grave.
This is all we know of the real Berengaria. I found her to be a sympathetic, even an admirable figure. It has been her fate to be judged and found wanting—for not being able to hold her husband’s interest, for staying in the shadows, above all, for not being another Eleanor of Aquitaine. I think that is very unfair. We need to remember that Richard could act, but she could only react, and her expectations would have been those of a medieval wife and queen. Women in the MA did not have the power that we wish they had, and even Eleanor paid a great price for her refusal to accept the constrictions placed upon her sex by society and the Church. This takes us full circle, then, to my friend’s concern that today’s readers expect their female characters to display an independent spirit and boldness that would have been anachronistic for most of them. I hope she is wrong, would be interested in your thoughts on this subject.
Lastly, I bought Alan Gordon’s latest, The Parisian Prodigal recently. But Alan tells me his publisher has not offered a new contract for any more Fools’ Guild mysteries. This is bad news for his fans, for all who like mysteries, for all who appreciate good writing. To let his publisher know we want more of this clever series, contact St Martin’s Minotaur Books, 175 Fifth Avenue, New York City, NY 10010, or publicity@stmartins.com.
February 16, 2010
Hi Sharon,
I loved reading your thoughts on Berengaria. You have a real grasp of who you believe she was and how she ought to be portrayed, and even if she isn’t a powerhouse of a woman like Eleanor, your respect and admiration for her will show through your writing and inspire the same emotions from your readers. It takes real talent to portray women from times past as they really were and still make them likeable, identifiable, and sympathetic. It’s all too tempting for today’s writers to portray them as we as empowered twenty-first century women would like to envision they were. It can be very hard sometimes to read about women from times gone by when they were treated so poorly, but as a student of history and a fan of historical fiction, I wouldn’t want it any other way.
I’ve read historical novels where the attitudes and actions of the heroines were not very realistic for the times they lived in and that turns me off. If I wanted to read about contemporary women, I would read contemporary fiction. And if those authors want to write about women with modern tendencies, they should not be writing “historical fiction”.
I think I’ve mentioned that Diana Gabaldon is another of my favorite authors and she said she faced this problem when first writing Claire in Outlander. Claire was coming off as too modern, too independent for the 1740s, but she loved the character so much, she didn’t want to change her, and that’s where she got the inspiration to make Claire from the future. It was the only way she could keep her vision of a true historical novel and her vision of Claire.
Getting to my point, (long way around!), in my opinion, authors writing historical fiction have to write true to the times – fans of good historical fiction expect that – and you are one of the best at it! So stick to your gut and keep being a proponent of keeping historical fiction “real”!
Personally, I admire Berengaria’s quiet kind of courage more than Eleanor of Aquitaine’s more showy courage, and I find alpha heroines rather tedious. I’m looking forward to seeing what you do with Berengaria, because she’s so often been depicted (unfairly, in my opinion) by historical novelists as spiritless and spineless.
Thanks, Sharon!
And I thought Ambroise was very much the sycophant in his account, so I’m sure Berengaria was beautiful when he wrote about her. But he was probably cribbing from the Itinerarium Peregrinorum, anyway.
Yours, Alan Gordon
A very interesting post Sharon, thank you. I was so pleased to read it because you echo my own thoughts when you say that Medieval women did not have the power we wished they had, and your portrayal of Berengaria, especially in the area of her childlessness, is a direct match for what I have found during my alternative research on Queen Adeliza of Louvain. It fits a certain pattern. As Jenny so rightly says, as writers of historical fiction we should be true to the times – or why bother writing them? Also, as Jenny says, many readers really appreciate that integrity. I know as a reader myself I do.
I have no problem with more quiet characters, be they men or women. In fact, I think it makes the writing that much more believable – when it is shown that they were not all in one image, but that like today, everybody had their own way of being different.
In fact, that is one thing that annoys me in historical novels: I can’t think of one women who wasn’t described as beautiful. I find it hard to believe that all the noble women of the time that were worth a mention were beautiful. Surely there must have been some who were at least plain, no?
Sharon,
I actually tend to agree with your friend’s assertion that characters should have at least one of the following characteristics: “assertive, charismatic, bold, and beautiful.” I’m not sure one particular character has to emcompass all of them though. I do agree with Jenny and Elizabeth that characters in historical fiction should stay true to form, even if they are only tolerable to readers. For instance, in Elizabeth Chadwick’s book “A Place Beyond Courage,” John Marshall’s first wife was barely tolerable because she didn’t posses any of the above listed characteristics, but Elizabeth didn’t suddenly make her into the wife of the year.
However, if you look outside of the historical fiction realm, I think people are actually more inclined to read about characters that are not assertive, charismatic, bold, and beautiful. Take for instance the Twilight series. No one could classify Belle as any of those things, except maybe beautiful because that is so subjective. She is completely co-dependent on Edward and then Jacob for everything. Other books such as Julie and Julia, Cleaved, Eat Pray Love-these women are not necessarily beautiful, assertive, or charismatic. It just so happens the authors (who are the lead characters) can write a good story.
Brenna, I understand that some people (okay, women!) are not happy with Twilight for that very reason–that Bella is so dependent upon Edward. They argue that she is not a good role model for girls and young women. I haven’t read the series, so I can only relate what others have said. AS for John Marshal’s first wife, she inspired more pity than sympathy, but I found her quite believable. We forget sometimes that the medieval Church’s teachings about sex were destructive in many ways; imagine thinking you were sinning every time you had sex. There were undoubtedly many women like John Marshal’s first wife, and I think Elizabeth handled the subject very well. For example, Elizabeth didn’t take the easy way out and make her simply frigid. She was physically attracted to John, but ashamed that she was, for she’d been taught that lust was sinful, even in the marriage bed. Obviously she could never have carried a book on her own–how many characters could, though? But by portraying her like this, Elizabeth gave us a very interesting glimpse of a side of medieval life that doesn’t often appear in books or films–one of the many reasons why I enjoy her novels so much.
Jenny, I had never heard that about Outlander and how Diana decided to use time travel. That is fascinating! Thanks for sharing that.
Oooh, Sharon I definitely agree with what you said regarding John’s first wife. I didn’t like her that much as a character, but she was written quite well. Her inner conflict was amazingly well-written, and caused me to understand how she truly felt, which in turn changed my feelings from hate to simple distaste.
Sharon – Just wanted to chime in on the part of your post about extensive use of descriptive language to create verisimilitude for the reader. I find you always strike just the right balance, providing enough telling details to transport us to your settings in our minds, but not bogging down your text with so much minutiae that your pacing suffers. I’ve read other historicals in which the author goes on for pages about the precise sequence of steps for patching a hole in a corn crib, passages I found myself skimming to get to the author’s otherwise compelling story. I’ve also read others in the opposite extreme, in which the author tosses a few sketchy descriptors in about the setting before diving into the action, which I found unsatisfying.
With your novels, on the other hand, it’s so easy to picture any of your settings, whether a seedy tavern or royal bedchamber, and your description is vital to, never distracts from, your story. One of my particular favorites has always been your detailed accounts of the food, drink and entertainment at royal feasts – I often find myself inspired to pour a glass of wine!
Me again!
The more I research, the more I find medieval mindsets and ways of thinking fascinating. I used my ‘alternative’ research to find and flesh out Aline FitzGilbert and didn’t know what I was going to find until I met her – she taught me a lot and I wrote as I found.
I think that, even as today there are general rules to society and most of us obey them and operate inside them, but obviously our own personal characteristics, conditioning and upbringing within those rules will reflect different facets and experiences, and ways of interpretation. One size has never fitted all.
The beauty thing is a strong story-telling trait that has been in our psyche since the year dot. If you look at Medieval tales the heroines are always beautiful (although not usually assertive except in a belle dames sans merci sort of way) and the heroes always bold, handsome and brave. Sharon, didn’t you say in a previous blog that Berengaria was described in what would have been glowing terms for her period? So was William Marshal’s wife and his daughter. Women in medieval chronicles who receive the seal of approval generally have a ‘noble heart’ are ‘gracious’ ‘worthy’ ‘beautiful’ ‘courtly’ ‘of high breeding’ with ‘a cheerful disposition’ One never sees a wish list involving ‘feist’ and ‘assertiveness’ Indeed, such tendencies were sometimes views as hinting at a masculine disposition and were not to be encouraged (Empress Matilda for e.g.)
A random thought: Today, more than ever we seem hung up on youth and beauty. I sometimes wonder how medieval folk perceived themselves with reference to their looks. When even tiny mirrors were rare and precious things that only a few would have owned, beauty really would have been in the eye of the beholder. How vivid was the awareness of their personal looks to the medieval individual?
I am rambling now, so had better disappear! I do love the discussions on your blog!
Hi Sharon,
As always I love reading your blogs & am delighted to hear that Lionheart will be a long novel, just as I was when I first saw Devil’s Brood. The longer the better as far as I’m concerned!
I’m really looking forward to reading about, & getting to know Berengaria. Not all women, either in the MA or even now, can be bright, bold & beautiful. There is a lot to be said for the less flashy, quiet sort of courage. It may not be as glamourous, but perhaps more of us can relate to that kind of strength.
Elizabeth, that’s great food for thought! I’ve read a couple of books recently that pointed out the absence of mirrors, one of the main characters had only seen their distorted reflection in water. I cannot even imagine going through life not knowing what I looked like down to the last minute detail, or presenting myself to the world au naturel with no makeup and frizzy hair!
Oh please don’t portray her as some modern Alpha woman (love that), show her as she was quiet, yet determined and strong. She’s such a doormat in the books that I have read on her (which are few), but you are right there is more to that.
As for making the reader feel they are there with the sights, smells, etc. YES! You and EC are two of the very few that can really suck me into another century. Please keep on writing.
Hi Sharon,
“When I read novels…. “your 3rd paragraph speaks so well of how you convey to the reader (me!) the very essence of the times you’re writing about. To know the lighting of the room, the smells, the air flow, what they see as they look out of the window, the background sounds, etc. make it all so very real and tangible. I get to live in the moment along with them So, too, we need to read the “gritty and vivid details” of each life no matter which direction your research takes us. Might Berengaria’s personality variances reveal nothing more than a smart MA woman “picking her battles”? I could fully appreciate her being the opposite of that bold, independent spirit you refer to, embrace her for the trials and tribulations she endured, and definitely look forward to learning more about her life and small triumphs through your work.
Trish, that is exactly what I think about Berengaria, too! I have a scene with her brother Sancho after she’s met Eleanor for the first time, and she tells him that while Eleanor lives, there will always be two queens of England. He says that for some brides, that would be one queen too many. She responds, “She is Richard’s mother. I will be Richard’s wife. I do not see why we must be rivals, much less adversaries. I am sure we can both carve out our own domains, hers in the council chamber and mine in the bedchamber. Besides,” she said, with a faint smile, “it would be foolish, indeed, to begin a war I could not hope to win.” People forget sometimes what courage it took to go off to marry Richard so far from home, especially since he was still officially betrothed to the unfortunate Alys! Richard really must have had a silver tongue to have been able to convince her father to make the match under such circumstances. For Berengaria and her father, it was a huge leap of faith, assuming that by the time she reached Sicily, Richard would have been able to extricate himself from that unwanted plight-troth with Alys so they could wed. And then to accompany him on Crusade as she did; as I said in my blog, tht was remarkable. Fortunately, she and Joanna became close; one chronicler describes them as “two birds in a cage.”
Indeed, descriptions are a central part of the book. It’s one reason i love Lord of the Rings so much; the descriptions are very detiled. And it’s the same for your books, Sharon and Elizabeth. The descriptions make the place and scene truly come to life.
I agree that to have modern thinking in minds of people past is disturbing in books. In fact some of the ways that historical books can help us think about how we are and think is by presenting a different way of thinking.
looking forward to having another long read, always worth it. As well as meeting another woman,with different characteristics.
Assertive, charismatic, bold and beautiful- sounds like someone you would find on Desperate Housewives or other shows like that. Eleanor of Aquitaine was amazing as she was a woman ahead of her time- divorcing one king to marry a man who would be a king himself. But was that why she spent so long imprisoned? I think the world just wasn’t ready for her.
I have been looking forward to getting to know Berengaria. I am quite prepared to embrace her. I would hate for her to be given those characteristics if they weren’t true to her nature. I have liked a lot of your female characters that have been a little quieter- for example Anne in ‘Sunne’, Rosamund Clifford, Catrin in ‘Dragons’ just to name a few.
If people want historically set novels with modern-minded women – they read Romance novels, not historical fiction.
Amen Megan! You tell ’em girl!
Paula–I too have liked the quieter women of Sharon’s novels, although Rosamund was not a favorite–too breathlessly adoring of Henry!
One of my favorite minor women characters was Katherine Woodville (in Sunne). The scene of her meeting with Richard after Buckingham’s execution was gripping and so very poignant. I kept thinking (hopeless romantic that I am), “it would have been nice if these two had become a couple.” Of course it never would’ve happened, even if Richard had survived Bosworth.
I am looking forward to Berengaria’s arrival. She is one of those English queens that exists in history books only as her husband’s appendage, a sentence on the page that begins, “married to…and lived from this date to that.” She has always intrigued me and I just love her musical name. I’m ready for a “softer” queen consort after the overwhelming Eleanor!
Sharon, did you ever watch “Bewitched” (yes, I AM dating myself!)? One episode had Samantha trying to write a historical novel and having writer’s block. She “twitches” the characters into her presence so she can discuss plot with them and get their ideas. Of course, it all goes awry when they start to “pop in” on their own accord–during her dinner time, when she’s sleeping, etc., and it makes Darrin nuts! Wouldn’t it be wonderful for you, Sharon, if you could summon Berengaria, or Richard, etc and have a talk with them?
Yikes, Maritza, if I “summoned” Richard–or Henry or Eleanor, etc–I’d probably never get rid of them and in no time at all, they’d take over my life. The Angevins were a pushy lot; kings usually are. Berenegaria, on the other hand, would probably be the ideal house guest. Wouldn’t it be wonderful, though, to be able to bring back historical figures–briefly, of course? We could ask Becket why he did that remarkable turnaround, ask Henry why he hadn’t listened to Eleanor about their sons, ask Edward IV if he’d really plight-trothed Eleanor Butler, etc.
As for Berengaria’s name, the poor girl has even gone down in history under the wrong name. Her real name was Berenguela, which I think is beautiful. The French form of this was Berengere, and the English (and least lyrical) form is Berengaria. Berenguela is music to the ear, at least to my ear, and this what “my” Richard calls her; we forget sometimes that this man, the ultimate soldier, was also a poet.
I am looking forward to reading about Berengaria, the only characterization I have read of her is in one of Roberta Gellis’ books and she was really wimpy! although Richard did indeed take her to bed! He had witnesses! which was standard for the time (I believe). I concur, that it irritates the hell out of me when a character acts out of their time with modern sensibilities and attitudes. And for that reason I rarely read books published by Zebra. They have great synposis and sound like great stories, but honestly they read like they were written by a computer or at least with the aid of a computer program. As if the publisher had taken all the most popular historical novels by really good authors, put all the plot points into the computer program and then said OK, this is page 14, the heroine does this by that page and the author wrote it that way! Also, we, the modern readers (I guess) forget how much more restricted life was for women and men in previous centuries! There was always a Lord to answer to–a husband, a father, a brother, a King, a nephew, a father-in-law, or a son! No such thing as “freedom” as we know it for women.
Sharon,
I know this is a little off subject, but did you get to put the comment from Lady Moppets story. You know, May I show you my swords? I can’t wait to see that.
Iechyd da,
Dave
>Admittedly, none of this advances the plot line and it helps to explain why my books tend to be Moby-Dick-sized tomes. But it’s fun to write and—I hope—to read.
Oh yes! Its why I love your books so much; you and EC manage to do this in a way that adds to the story’s background, adds to the picture. Even if it doesn’t advance the plot, it certainly makes the plot more colorful!
I so agree with you and Berengia – she cannot be blamed for not being a 21st century woman. Its a pity we don’t know more about her; I suspect if we did we’d find more strenght and courage that she must have shown going on the crusade. For now we need to remember where she was when. Looking forward to reading how you draw her!
BTW, do you know the origin of Berengia? Its such an odd name, esp when every other woman is Catherine, Elizabeth, Eleanore, Mary….Any hint on why her parents bestoed that on her, if she had other names?
Oops, I posted my name question before reading the above posts..sorry!
“It looks like Lionheart is going to be a very long novel”
Shiny! This makes me, and no doubt everyone else here, very happy.
Random, but that’s interesting about “apples of paradise” being bananas. I would have guessed it referred to a pomegranate.
As for the question about the portrayal of women in novels, for me, it really depends on what kind of novel it is. If it’s historical fiction, I want the women (AND the men!) to behave in the manner that was appropriate, expected and/or documented for their time. So if Berengaria was something of a shrinking violet, it is fine since that would have been proper. If it’s a novel set in modern times, though, I have no use for helpless or pathetic women. You mentioned the Twilight series. That is a prime example of pathetic female characters (in my humble opinion, don’t waste your time reading them. I read all 4 in 6 days and now really wish I could unread them).
However, in whatever time period a novel is set, I think we modern women can tend to forget that there is strength, bravery and honor to be found in those who are left behind, who have to wait for their men to come home, to make the best of a situation over which they have no control. It is a different kind of courage than the brash, wild, reckless courage of women like Eleanor of Aquitaine or others who are in the thick of things.
And today, George, Duke of Clarence, was executed privately in the Tower of London for treason against his brother, Edward IV.
Although unconnected, today Frederick II, Holy Roman Emperor signed a ten-year truce with al-Kamil, regaining Jerusalem, Nazareth, and Bethlehem with neither military engagements nor support from the papacy. It’s interesting to compare this achievement through diplomacy to all the fighting of the other crusaders.
While I truly admire a woman like Eleanor of Aquitaine, I, myself, don’t have that kind of nerve, and I am always happy to find a character that I can identify with. I remember when I read Gone With The Wind many, many years ago, I always preferred Melanie to Scarlett. I have a feeling I will like Berengaria very much.
Having Travelled Extensivly with My Work, I have Broadened- My Mind Much so I;m Lucky i Know, however, Back in 1100;s crossing the English Channel must Have Been Incredibel-For Any Traveller. My Point is The Vast majority of Populations,?……Held Back By Church-rules And Regulations + protocol must have been At most, a Mundane Exsistance. So much the Harder, For Strong Beautiful-women(Beautiful Being a Disadvantage Perhaps?? ie, Rosamund Clifford) I;m looking-out For A Rose Bush(Rosamundi)……Now that Spring is Coming in the Pacific Northwest…..I;d love too Be At your Dinner Tabel -Sharon Say you could Invite 200 people(Oh- the Rush for Tickets)Thank-you Sharon, I wonder what sort of Food You;d Serve,….HA, Ha,
Details and diversity, keep them coming! Others have expressed the value of the kinds of details you provide far better than I could and there have been excellent points made for the importance of having characters being true to the times. I’d like to add that if all characters were “assertive, charismatic, bold, and [or] beautiful” reading would get awfully boring. Much as I adore Eleanor, I wouldn’t want to live in world where all women were like her.
Marjorie, Margaret Mitchell herself said she preferred Melanie to Scarlett and that Melanie was the true heroine of GWTW. In her own way Melanie shows just as much strength and courage as Scarlett and I’m sure the same was true of Berengaria.
Sharon,
I noted this on the BBC news this morning and thought you might be interested. It seems they now think that the battle of Bosworth was actually located some two miles south of where previously thought. They are not giving its exact location yet as they don’t want hordes of people with metal detectors crawling over the terrain,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/8329251.stm
Today Conan IV, Duke of Brittany and Constance’s father died.
Maritza, I thought the same thing about Rosamund in Time and Chance, but in Devil’s Brood I really admired the way she left Henry and retired to the nunnery so she could seek ‘inner peace’. That took a lot of courage.
I agree, Paula, for Henry was not an easy man to refuse, and catering to his whims had become a habit with Rosamund by now. She had to have loved him to risk eternal damnation for so many years; there is no evidence whatsoever that she enjoyed the perks of being a royal mistress the way so many other ladies did.
Miss Moppet, that was a fascinating bit of information about Margaret Mitchell preferring Melanie to Scarlett. Is Lady Moppet contemplating any more time traveling? For those who haven’t read it, her alter ego visited the Angevin court a while back, with hilarious consequences. The poor girl had to dodge the carnal lusts of Henry, Richard, and John–I don’t think Geoffrey made a move on her, did he?
Sharon,
He will now!!!!!
Sharon, thank you for asking after Lady Moppet! She has indeed had many more adventures. I’ve had to start a blog to keep track of her. As you say, Geoffrey was immune to her charms, which came as quite a relief, really. She didn’t escape John, though – and this had very serious consequences for her next adventure. Having double-crossed John over the crown business she knew it wouldn’t be safe to return to the past during his reign – but circumstances leave her with no choice…First episode of the sequel is here:
http://misadventuresofmoppet.wordpress.com/adventures-in-time-travel/adventures-in-time-travel-deeper-undercover/
Link to the original Lady Moppet story:
http://misadventuresofmoppet.wordpress.com/adventures-in-time-travel/adventures-in-time-travel-at-the-court-of-henry-ii/
And the main Adventures in Time Travel page, with lots of extras:
http://misadventuresofmoppet.wordpress.com/adventures-in-time-travel/
Sharon, Mentioning your ‘Devil’s Brood’ above, brought to mind just how complicated family relationships were in the thirteenth century, even those that crossed borders, e.g. England and Wales and how often they led to war and death!
The story of Maud-Clifford-Longspee-Giffard, who pleaded with the church for a christian burial for Llywelyn ap Gruffudd, for example, is very interesting:(Taken from the paper by Gwyneth Richards)
She was the only child of Walter and Margaret Clifford (daughter of Llywelyn ab Iorwerth), and was sole heir to her father’s barony. Maud’s family arranged her marriage to William Longspée III, son of the earl of Salisbury, in 1244. Since her parents married in about 1233 Maud was probably no older than ten years when she married and may possibly have been even younger. William Longspée III, died in early 1257, from injuries he received in Edward 1’s first tournament at Blythe on June 4, 1256.
Maud’s father died in December 1263 and as his sole heir Maud became a very rich woman and spent many years as an independent wealthy widow, who was able to make her own decisions. This situation came to an abrupt end in late September 1270, when she was forcibly abducted from her manor of Canford in Dorset by John Giffard of Brimpsfield in Gloucestershire. She was subsequently raped by Giffard and forced into marriage even though she had complained of her abduction to King Henry111.
It is highly significant that Maud was now the wife of John Giffard and a cousin of both Roger and Edmund de Mortimer who were all involved, either directly or indirectly, in the death of Llywelyn ap Gruffudd, who was Maud’s second cousin. Maud’s husband was definitely and intimately involved with those who killed her cousin.
Edmund and Roger Mortimer were the sons of Roger Mortimer (d.1282), who was Maud’s cousin and a grandson of Llywelyn ab Iorwerth. (The Roger Mortimer who died in1282 was the son of Gwladus Ddu.) Like Maud Giffard and this Roger Mortimer, the Welsh leader Llywelyn ap Gruffudd was also a grandchild of Llywelyn ab Iorwerth. Here we have a complicated family involvement on both sides of a war as in the style of your ‘Devil’s Brood!’
Maud’s well-documented request for a Christian burial for Llywelyn seems also to have been supported in part by both Edmund and Roger Mortimer, (possibly for fear for Llywelyn’s soul following their alleged treacherous part in his killing?) The former had informed Archbishop Pecham that his men had reported to him that Llywelyn had called for a priest before he died and Roger Mortimer had supplied the vestments for a monk who had sung mass for Llywelyn before the battle.
Edward I certainly knew of Maud’s approach to Archbishop Pecham because the Archbishop had advised him of her request in the letter already mentioned by Kathryn dated 17 December, 1282. It is therefore interesting to speculate on Maud’s motivation for seeking absolution for Llywelyn, if indeed there is any other reason than a simple request on behalf of a relative. It would also be interesting to know whether any evidence of her request being acceded to exists.
Hi, Sharon,
You might like to check out HFO.
A new member wants to know how to go about the reading of all your books in the right (maybe chronological) order.
I know that for myself I started with the Welsh trilogy, then Sunne in Splendour and only then those books dealing with the troubles of Henry and Eleanor. Others may differ.
With hindsight, what order would you recommend??
Sharon,
It looks like you’ll be getting a lot more writing done. Another winter storm heading our way. 1-2′ is forecast where I live, how about you?
Iechyd da,
Dave
Yes, Dave. They are bandying about the word “blizzard” again because of the winds, rather than the actual accumulation. Of course six more inches upon what we’ve still got from the last two storms is not something to shrug off. Good luck. At least it is dry and sunny in Acre, and hotter than usual because of the fireworks between Richard and Philippe and Philippe and everyone else!
How do you feel about winter snowstorms, Sharon? For me, having been born in the tropics and living most of my life in Miami, winter and snow seem magical to me. I’ve experienced them only on brief ski trips to Colorado, Wyoming, and Vermont. Watching the Olympics these past 12 days (LOVE the Winter Olympics!), reminds me that I really am jealous of those of you that experience 4 seasons a year. For us in FL, its cool summer, warm summer, hot summer, and scorching summer; usually accompanied by thunderstorms and mosquitoes for 7 months out of the year! But I also understand how tiresome it must be to shovel snow and wear heavy coats, etc for so many months.
I was once in the south of Spain during July and I can tell you even shorts and tank tops seemed too heavy. I’m thinking just how hideously awful it would have been to handle brocade, long flowing sleeves, and headdresses in 100 degree weather. It gets very very hot in the Holy Land, as well, so how does Richard handle his armour and Berengeria her flowing gowns? BTW, if Berengeria sounds lyrical, Berenguela is even lovelier!
And today (the 25th, in my time), Dafydd, Llywelyn and Joanna’s son died in Garth Celyn. I’ve always loved his character, and felt his fate was so tragic – at least Richard and Llywelyn (ap Gruffydd) never saw their (or their fathers’) legacies destroyed in their lifetime. I’d like to think he was comforted by the knowledge that Llywelyn (III) would try to carry on the legacy, and would do not as Gruffydd would have done, but rather as Llywelyn (Fawr) and Dafydd did. On that note, I have to say I loved your portrayal of Dafydd and Llywelyn, and thier relationship. It was complex, and there was tension because of Gruffydd’s legacy, but it was obvious Dafydd at least liked his nephew, and there was certainly mutual respect between them.
On a different note, I also want to wish an easy and good fast to anyone who’s going to fast today, as I am. It’s the Fast of Esther, where we fast for the day in memory of Esther and the Jews of Shushan fasting for three days in order to ask the Lord for mercy from Haman’s plan.
On an entirely different and happy note, my mother has jsut returned from the states, and has brought me 11 books, among them Cleopatra’s Daughter and the Time of Singing. Of course, she’s in the middle of tToS, but I managed to get Cleopatra’s Daughter before my sister got her hands on it.
Sharon,
Now that you know what HFO means!!!! I think you should get yourelf over there, where your fans are discussing whether to read your books in chronological or publication order! They surely would appreciate your own thoughts on the matter.
BTW. I have often wondered about this while I have been reviewing/editing/hacking/changing/crying in despair, etc. over my own miserable efforts to write, whether you ever settle down in front of the fire, with the snow outside, with one of your own books and read it through. Does knowing the whole thing from start to finish preclude you getting any enjoyment from them? Have you read any of them since they have been published?
Koby, you are a lucky boy!!
Koby-
Cleopatra’s Daughter is now one of my favorites, along with Michelle Moran’s first two books “Nefertiti” and the “Heretic Queen.” Another book Michelle recommended to me was Margaret George’s Memoirs of Cleopatra.” If you can get your hands on it, you certainly should! It is a great read.
Sharon,
If you have access, you might want to have a look at the February edition of BBC History Magazine. There’s an article titled “Richard the Lionheart: the failed crusader” If you don’t have access to the magazine, but want to read the article, just send me your home address to my email address, and I’ll make a copy of the article to send to you. I did this for Brenna with the article about Henry V, and I hope she was all right with what the article said.
Iechyd Da,
Dave
Dave-
I was perfectly great with the article. I actually wanted to get my own subscription, but the website said it was for Europeans only. Dave, how do you get the subscription?
Brenna,
There is a subscription form in BBC America magazine. That’s where I got it. And, I got that because I purchased something from bbcamericashop.com
That’s kind of funny that you couldn’t get it here. There’s even a price on the front of the magazine in US dollars. I’ll check out bbcamerica shop, and see if I can find a way to subscribe from there. If not, I’ll send you the order form from one of my bbcamerica magazines.
Iechyd da,
Dave
Brenna,
Forgot to say, I wasn’t sure if you were ok with the article, because Henry V was capable of such atrocities.
Iechyd da,
Dave
Brenna,
I just confirmed it. Go to bbcamericashop.com click the browse by “all products” button at the top of the screen. Then look under B and scroll down. It’s a bit of a steal if you ask me $54.98 for a year. I paid $150.00 for two years.
cheers,
Dave
> reminds me that I really am jealous of those of you that experience 4 seasons a year. For us in FL, its cool summer, warm summer, hot summer, and scorching summer; usually accompanied by thunderstorms and mosquitoes for 7 months out of the year!
I have the same problem here in Phx. We only have two seasons, summe and not summer. I’ve lived in a few places with seasons, and I grew to love the changes. I still try to get up north (Arizona) when I can to see the leaves change, and a snowfall or two. Then again, there are times of the year (like right now, when I really love living here – its been in the 60s, 70s, the last month or so, and with the rain weve gotten, the wildflowers are starting to bloom.
Sharone, forgive the question but I have totally forgotten – when is Lionheart coming out?
Right now, I’d happily swap 4 seasons for a bit of warmth! I live in Norway, on the west coast where it normally rains a lot (my American husband tried to explain this to his friends back in Vermont. His take on our climate was “warm rain in the summer, cold rain in the winter), but this winter we’ve been completetly snowed in. It started to snow December the 18th, and it has just continued so there are still hughe piles of snow on the ground. I’m ready for spring, but it seems to have forgotten us…
Cindy ash – I travelled all over Arizona in -93. Loved it! Very exotic for a girl used to snowy peaks and deep fjords!
What a great post on Beregaria! I’ve sort of had her on the brain lately, too, as I just finished reading Norah Lofts’s novel, The Lute Player. You make Berengaria seem much more interesting, though! I didn’t know all of this about her and her relationship with Richard. I can’t wait to read your version of the whole story.
Dave-
Thank you for the directions! Once my husband and I officially move and get settled, I can hopefully subscribe! Although it seems like everyone I want to learn more about has already been covered!
I did have a hard time reading about Henry V.
And today, Henry the Young King was born. Also, Happy Purim!
Dave, I would love to have a copy of that article. Thank you so much! I will e-mail you about it tonight. I’ve been trapped in Acre for days now, but I finally got the chapter done. Now I feel as if I could sleep for a week–dealing with the Angevins can be exhausting.
Today Gruffydd ap Llywelyn died, trying to escape from the Tower of London. It’s aslo Saint David’s day – the patron saint of Wales, who died today.
Happy St David’s Day to my Welsh friends and readers and to all who are Welsh at heart; I think that includes everyone on this blog!
I finished another Acre chapter yesterday, so I hope to have a new blog up soon, once I decide upon a topic. After all the nasty squabbling at Acre with Richard and Philippe and Conrad of Montferrat, I want a nice, peaceful subject.
Good news for Elizabeth Chadwick’s many American fans. Sourcebooks is publishing her novel about William Marshal, The Scarlet Lion, today.
I just hung my Welsh flag from my dormroom door in order to wish all who pass a Happy Saint Dafydd’s Day. I am also going to search Milwaukee for something with leeks in it. Lets see how this works…
Hi, Sharon. This is the first time I’ve ever put myself on the pages of your blog, but I’m quite impressed. I just want to let you know I’m linking your blog to mine; it’s The Writer’s Daily Grind at:
http://www.writersdailygrind.blogspot.com
It’s kind of “eclectic”, but then, so is my Great Medieval Science Fiction Masterpiece, in a way.
Anne G
And today, the Statute of Rhuddlan incorporated the Principality of Wales into England.
Hi Koby,
Yah! Boo!
That’s why there is no dragon or any other recognition that Wales is a country apart, on the Union Jack!
Indeed, it is patently unfair and unjsut. Let’s start an Internet petition, group and site for this as well!
I’m in, Koby!
Dave, can you contact me? I tried e-mailing you about your kind offer to send me that article about Richard I, only the e-mails keep bouncing back with tht weird “aborted” message. Thanks.
Sharon,
I’ll send an email first chance I get. As for the discussion of having Wales represented on the Union Jack, I’d rather not see it. Wales should be proud to have it’s own seperate flag(s)(forgot about St. David’s flag). To be represented on the union jack would be like the statute of Rhuddlan. Remember, it’s only educated people who realise the fact that Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, and England are four seperate countries. As I’m sure most of you will agree at some point or another we’ve all run into someone who had no idea that Wales is a country, and simply thought it was a part of england. By including Wales on the union jack the Welsh would simply lose more of their national identity. They would simply become british, or even worse people would call them english. OK, I’ll get off the soap box now.
Iechyd Da,
Dave
An interesting take, Dave. Of course, my suggestion was half in jest – I believe that while it may be a worthy cause, there are surely worthier ones, and in any case, I truly don’t think I’ve got ht time to join/organize such a concept. But your post is quite true as well, and I feel I agree with it more than the idea of adding Wales to the Union Jack.
Sharon,
I sent an email, however I forgot to give it a subject heading.
Iechyd da,
Dave
Dave, Not sure I agree! We are (like it or not – and these days I like it more than the alternative!) the United Kingdom of England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales and we now have our own Assembly – a reduced sort of Welsh Parliament. The first three are on the Union Jack. Why wouldn’t an emblem of Wales be there? How would one of the States in America take to not being represented on the Stars and Stripes?
I remember when one of our more well known singers (Miss Church!) sang for George Bush at the White House, he asked her where she came from. She replied ‘Wales’ sir. and he said ‘What State is that in?’!!!!!!!
Most Welsh people I know, have no objection to being known as ‘British.’ as well as Welsh. These are after all the British Isles and we were the ‘Britons’ who were here first (I think!). We do however, object to being called ‘English’ by people who should know better, as well as having all of our Islands being termed ‘England,’ by the same people.
>Today Gruffydd ap Llywelyn died, trying to escape from the Tower of London
Upthread we were talking about favorite scenes. I’d forgotten that one.
And today, John I vowed to go on crusade in order to gain the support of Pope Innocent (actually, I’m not sure of this one), Edward IV deposed Henry VI (VII), Joan of England (John and Isabella’s eldest daughter), Queen Consort of Scotland died, and so did Saladin.
On this day in 1193, one of the great rulers of the MA, Salah al-Din, known to the West as Saladin, died. Sadly, he is not likely to take centre stage in Lionheart, as he and Richard never met–like Elizabeth Tudor and Mary, Queen of Scots. But I’ll be able to remedy this in my next book, about the real Balian of Ibelin.
Ha, Sharon! Now it’s my turn to defeat you in posting!
But yeah, he was a great and fascinating man. I’ve read an interesting article about him, where it was said that he was considered the greatest warrior/ruler the Muslim world had ever known – but in his own eyes, he died a failure, failing to defeat Richard and conquer back the whole of the Holy Land.
I really need to follow this blog ore often..it’s great reading these posts and discussions.
For now I would like to return to the subject of Berengaria. Sharon, you describe her so passionately and vivid…She might not be a character full of glamour and exravertness, but I think she will be a character people will take in their hearts. Se might e more familiar since so may women go on quietly and full of courage in the darkest times and after awfull experiences.
I also love the way you incorporate descriptions of locations, smells, sounds and tastes. I need that to feel close to the characters and world I am reading about. I think it might be especially important when a book is about a world that is so different from our own, like the MA.
I am already looking forward to the new book ( same goes for you Elizabeth..)
I will try and keep in touch more often
I have copied the following post from the one I posted on Sharon’s FB page, as I think it might interest followers of this blog:
Writers like Sharon (and me, hopefully??) depend on their research into the available history of the events of which they write. Much of this history can be proven as pretty much ‘fact’ from researching the various independent sources (chronicles) which write of the period in question, some of which can be cross referenced. There are however, many sources that are based on ‘word-of-mouth’ stories handed down through the generations, including poems and minstrel’s tales.
I think, in an attempt to debunk too literal a following of these ‘word-of-mouth’ stories of the past, but without denigrating their value as historically valuable that I posted the following:
‘Word-of-mouth’ tales, like all stories that are ‘passed down’ through the ages with all the embellishments that they have incorporated with each telling, have to be taken with a little pinch of salt!
I lived in Africa for over 30 years. African history, from whatever tribe, is all by word of mouth, as they have no written records of events. Do you think that after multi -generations the original event is accurately told today?
Taking ourselves as an example. The Bible of the 21st century that we have today has passed through how many translations, interpretations, and slant by so called leaders of the Christian faith, be they Catholic, Greek Orthodox or Protestant? Do you think that the modern version can be believed as the authentic word of God and not that of often corrupt and prejudiced men??
Same with the Chronicles. How much dependency can be placed on those Chroniclers who were in the pay of a particular Monarch or Archbishop, writing ‘history’ as their employer wished it? Possibly, the only true record can come from the expenditure Rolls, which record the actual expenditure of the royal court and, sometimes, why the money was spent!
Very difficult for us who follow to discover the real truth in all this. I try, however, to limit myself to what can be’ proven,’ by comparing different chronicler’s interpretations of the same events and from reading the books of Historians, much more learned than I.
None of this is meant as a criticism. I am new to the art (science?) of historical research, but already, I have found so much conflicting ‘evidence,’ that I have become something of a sceptic. This scepticism is somewhat amplified when reading ‘word-of-mouth’ history from over 700 years ago!
Same with the Chronicles. How much dependency can be placed on those Chroniclers who were in the pay of a particular Monarch or Archbishop, writing ‘history’ as their employer wished it? Possibly, the only true record can come from the expenditure Rolls, which, written by poor clerks, recorded the actual expenditure of the royal court and, sometimes, why the money was spent!
Very difficult for us who follow to discoverthe real truth in all this.I try, however, to limit myself to what can be best ‘ proven,’ by comparing different chronicler’s interpretations of the same events and from reading the books of Historians, much more learned than I.
None of this is meant as a criticism of your post. I am new to the art (science?) of historical research, but already I have found so much conflicting ‘evidence,’ that I have become something of a sceptic!! This scepticism iis amplified somewhat, when reading history based on ‘word-of-mouth’!
Sorry that the last three paras somehow repeat themselves. I think it’s Sharon’s computer up to its old tricks!!
And today, our favorite dysfunctional father was born: Henry Fitz Empress.
Oh, and Ken, I totally agree with you. I wrote a paper on it once, on how there is no accurate source for history, as those who recorded it at the time were affected, so they wrote it as they saw it (a slanted viewpoint), and those who recorded it after the time didn’t actually know what happened, and were basing their records on the aforementioned slanted viewpoints.
Two things:
Miss Moppet, you are bookmarked!!! Entertainment and Games, the lightest batch of the lot, so I won’t lose you! I haven’t laughed this hard in forever — trying get teacher certification and trying to find out stuff about poor Ingeborg at the same time will do that to a woman. So did Lady Moppet get that drink with John?
Sharon, you’re portraying medieval women realistically. This is one of the things I so appreciate about your writing. Eleanor of Aquitaine was a most singular person. For us to think that the medieval period was populated by hordes of women just like her is completely fantastical. Even Joanna was not as courageous as her grandmother, else she wouldn’t have shook like a leaf after burning Llewelyn’s bed.
As for Berenguela’s physical attractiveness, no man besides her husband was likely to have ever seen enough of her physique to really judge her beauty. In an era when women were clothed from neck to ankles, and often covered their heads and throats with veils and wimples, physical beauty would be judged by movement, voice, hands, eyes and smile. I think too that most medieval monks would have been more impressed by a woman’s piety as a measure of beauty.
Thank you Eleanor! I’m delighted that you enjoyed reading about Lady Moppet. Did you find the sequel? It starts here http://bit.ly/b9dtO9. After her first adventure Lady Moppet intended staying well out of John’s way, but destiny had other ideas.
Re Eleanor of Aquitaine, I’m halfway through When Christ and His Saints Slept at the moment and looking forward to meeting her there!
Wasn’t he involved in a bizarre shooting incident
As if we don’t see his group of ladies on the side
l’excellent matériel.
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